Quantcast

Flying wing as cheap and simple option for basic fun flying.

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,455
Location
Rocky Mountains
Compare motorcycle wheels built for conventional motorcycles (little side load) versus motorcycles with side cars. Since the sidecar prevents titling/banking, those wheels need to transfer significant side loads.
But only in one direction unless you have a rider aboard, or are willing to be your own monkey and stand in the sidecar - which I have done. :rolleyes:

One of my best memories is riding in the side car with my father flying same when turning away from the car. Try that today............ :eek:
/thread drift
 

cluttonfred

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
7,987
Location
Fort Walton Beach, Florida, USA
The electric wheel/motor combos are intriguing, it would be interesting to see a motorglider or ultralight that used those to get up to takeoff speed and then continued on with a modest motor to the prop that would have otherwise required too long a takeoff run.
 

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,920
Location
YMM
The electric wheel/motor combos are intriguing, it would be interesting to see a motorglider or ultralight that used those to get up to takeoff speed and then continued on with a modest motor to the prop that would have otherwise required too long a takeoff run.
One of the newer gliders does already... Has a sustainer + driven wheel. Can't seem to Google up which one. The direct drive does most of the heavy lifting to get speed up, more efficient than propeller.

Edit - there it is, glowfly
 

Tiger Tim

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
3,475
Location
Thunder Bay
The electric wheel/motor combos are intriguing, it would be interesting to see a motorglider or ultralight that used those to get up to takeoff speed and then continued on with a modest motor to the prop that would have otherwise required too long a takeoff run.
Just waiting for the “21st Century English Electric Wren” thread to be started...
 

WonderousMountain

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
2,141
Location
Clatsop, Or
This procedure would have been easier to prototype IRL no doubt.

First off, I found the Polygonal body looked a good deal better if,
the upper section became the lower shell. That accomplished, it used
taper into a larger section approaching the saddle area. Immediately,
the Tubes showed a tendency toe in, which likely would be disaster,
in the off design point skid it's intended to perform.

Adding a second set intersecting gets at least a buildable structure.
The Taper on the Body adds a few degrees sweep, but it looks good.
I wasn't able to do the verticles yet, with other projects going simultaneously. Decided against the winglets. It's avoided here because there's enough span & competition entry is unplanned.

It will be getting the regular pair, and a plyon engine pedistool.
Assembly 2.png
 
Last edited:

Speedboat100

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
1,807
Location
Europe
Von Richthofens Wheels where a about 10 times wider then those tiny racing bicycle wheels! So the question remains, will those carbon wheels support the side loads of a not so perfect landing?

Von Richtofen was flying a modern combat aircraft ( of its day ) with dual machine guns....not a bush whacker. Certainly if you need power you can make it lighter.

This would be about 1600 grams with a wooden frame on it in 410 mm dia size.

ratti.jpg
 
Last edited:

Sockmonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
1,975
Location
Flint, Mi, USA
One of the newer gliders does already... Has a sustainer + driven wheel. Can't seem to Google up which one. The direct drive does most of the heavy lifting to get speed up, more efficient than propeller.

Edit - there it is, glowfly
When you think about it, the high acceleration you can get from an electric motor driven wheel could let you get away with not using a prop at all. Use a bit of down elevator to maintain traction like race cars do until you hit max speed and pull up.
 

erkki67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
2,340
Location
Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
View attachment 102664

Look at the ground angle even with that long (and fragile) tailskid...you could hide a SMART car in the blind spot. Tricycle gear with the nosewheel as far forward as possible would be my suggestion, probably with slight negative incidence to the wing on the ground to make landing easier as long as the elevons could lift the nose.

View attachment 102665
Id like to See this taildragger with Sockmonkeys wing or MikeW’s one but with thé Piojo fuselage, this would make sensé for me for several aspects.

one of them is the simplicity of construction, the wing is square, so its easy for an average builder to line up.

due to a narrow fuselage, the space required for building is also eased up and fwd visibility is a non issue.
 

erkki67

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
2,340
Location
Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
I like simple designs, a squarish plank with a similar looking fuselage pleases my eyes.

if the fuselage is integrated like on a few Sockmonkey sketches or hang below a MikeW wing Doesn’t really matter, it must be simple and straight fwd.

i was clearly influenced by Fritz, with his contributions to those matters here, simple lines, and easy to accomplish in a single car garage.
 

Aesquire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,463
Location
Rochester, NY, USA
Using powered wheels to lower takeoff distance doesn't seem a good trade off. That's weight that does zero good in the air, uses power/fuel/battery at the expense of range, extra complexity, and the least bothersome to me, special takeoff techniques that some one not familiar with the intent & details of controls could mess up and run off the runway. Wheel motors in power regen/braking mode all the way down the runway at full throttle? Run out of juice 5 miles down the river valley because the the gear is on full power and you didn't hear the noise over the wind?

Introducing new failure modes and expensive parts.

better to have more power for climb, flight, and run the motor at a lower power setting in cruise to keep it cooler.
 

Aesquire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,463
Location
Rochester, NY, USA
And, yes, I know the Airline guys list electric powered wheels as part of their New Green Wish List of Sales Bullet Points on the slide before Supersonic With No Boom Profit Promise, and right after Regenerative Braking from Windmilling Electric Turbines and We Hope No One Learned Newton's Laws and became a Journalist Anyway.
 

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,920
Location
YMM
Using powered wheels to lower takeoff distance doesn't seem a good trade off. That's weight that does zero good in the air, uses power/fuel/battery at the expense of range, extra complexity, and the least bothersome to me, special takeoff techniques that some one not familiar with the intent & details of controls could mess up and run off the runway. Wheel motors in power regen/braking mode all the way down the runway at full throttle? Run out of juice 5 miles down the river valley because the the gear is on full power and you didn't hear the noise over the wind?

Introducing new failure modes and expensive parts.

better to have more power for climb, flight, and run the motor at a lower power setting in cruise to keep it cooler.
Actually you're trading a bit of mechanical weight for a huge battery weight/kwh saving.

Propeller drive is the least efficient. Hub motors are most efficient. Takes way less kwh to do it with a wheel than with a propeller.
 

Norman

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
3,061
Location
Grand Junction, Colorado
Actually you're trading a bit of mechanical weight for a huge battery weight/kwh saving.

Propeller drive is the least efficient. Hub motors are most efficient. Takes way less kwh to do it with a wheel than with a propeller.
You would be adding dead weight to an airplane that already has inadequate power loading. Acceleration on the ground is nice but if the power available is cut in half when you leave the ground that extra motor is just dead weight that will reduce your rate of climb and both ends of your speed range. Offsetting the extra motor weight by throwing some battery cells overboard is a false economy, you still have an overweight under-powered airplane with equipment that could be contributing to flight but isn't so now you can't go as far, and climb-out still sucks. Some flying cars deal with this problem by having one engine drive both systems and de-clutch the wheels while in the air. A roller chain and a couple sprockets would be a lot lighter than an electric motor big enough to provide acceleration better than a propeller.
 

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
8,812
Location
North Carolina
The traditional way to shorten takeoff without too much extra weight is with RATO assistance. Model rocketry probably has stuff that would be of use to us.
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
8,299
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
All of this engineering-kwon-do, and Rube Goldberg-ing, and electro-complexifi-cation... just to not spend the money on a controllable pitch propeller and one of RV6ejguy's SDS systems for an appropriate IC engine... :).
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
1,718
Location
Canada
I predict that - within a decade - airliners will use electric tugs to help them accelerate to 100 knots on the runway. Then the tug dronedis-connects and drives itself back to the charging station to wait for its next customer.
The chief advantage is shorter take-offs.
A secondary advantage is burning less fossil fuel.
 

Bill-Higdon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
922
Location
Salem, Oregon, USA
I predict that - within a decade - airliners will use electric tugs to help them accelerate to 100 knots on the runway. Then the tug dronedis-connects and drives itself back to the charging station to wait for its next customer.
The chief advantage is shorter take-offs.
A secondary advantage is burning less fossil fuel.
 
Top