For some reason you guys seem to dwell on the identity change, so I guess once and for all I'll explain it to you. My service provider sold out to another service provider.....twice. Each time I tried to contact HBA and change the provider but keep the same name with a different provider designation. Either HBA ignored my requests or they sent the reply to my now non-existant account....which I could no longer access.
I tried numerous times to make contact with HBA on each of these ocassions and it was like throwing something into a black hole. The only way to get access again was to create a new account and
it kept telling me my "name" was already taken. Did you conspiracy theorist not notice than whenever a new idenity appeared the old one was never heard from again ?
Nothing clandestine about it. Just could not access the account any longer. I did have a little fun when you guys first discovered the duplicity but couldn't get me to admit it. It was like Adam Schiff personified........CONSPIRACY CONSPIRACY CONSPIRACY ! Now you know all the dirty little details, that probably won't satisfy you either. Personally I just grin when I think how much some of you fret over me.
Winginitt: Why not just learn to Tig......its very enjoyable.
Vigilant1:Noted. Please see first post in thread. Welding is fine, wonderful, soothing, therapeutic, functional, etc. Many people find it so. This discussion is to cover alternatives.
Vigilant1 :But, if we want the advantages of a chrome moly tube fuselage but already know in our heart that we
do not want to invest the scores of hours needed to master welding and we also
don't want to fiddle around with the precise fitting of angled tubes, what are the alternatives? Are there alternatives, assuming we can live with the weight penalties, etc?
Winginitt: I suggested Tig welding because
you apparently are either unaware of how little time it takes to learn to do a decent Tig weld vs endless hours trying to perfect a perfectly formed cosmetic bead every time.
EAA offers a simple one weekend training class that gets most people near the point of producing consistant and strong welds. I have seen many o/a welds that I wouldn't have used on a go kart much less an airplane. You have a misconception of how difficult Tig is, and I merely suggested that you try it before discarding it. Don't be afraid to give it a try like so many people do. The idea that you have to be super gifted as a welder in order to learn Tig is all wrong.
Vigilant1:And, there are folks who believe that only welding is proper--BUT not TiG!! Egads! On an airplan?!
Insufficient penetration, etc, etc. So even among the welding accolites, there are apparently sects and heretics.
Winginitt: This shows that you really have no understanding of weld processes. If you look at the majority of welds performed by amatuer airplane builders you will find ramapant overheating and extremly poorly crafted welds done by the less than gifted O/A welders. Many look like pidgeons did the work. If you ever even tried tig welding you would see the vast difference in ease of heat control compared to O/A. Someone who works in a job where they weld all the time with O/A can produce quality work.....but take a look at some of the welds in really old airplanes and you will find that not all of them are beautiful. As far as
penetration goes,how do you weld thin tubing and not get penetration ?
Precise fitting of tubes.....don't you think all those tubes you want to insert precisely into each other are going to require some time and effort too ? Where do you think the precise
stamped/pressed sheet metal fittings will come from ? Where do the gussets come from ? Where do any of the things you talk about using come from ? Are YOU going to make them ?
I can tell you the parts may assemble easily if made properly, but someone is going to have to do a ton of work designing dies and getting equipment to make the parts. Printing them ?
How strong are they going to be. Going to perform destructive testing ? You still have to learn how to design and how to print and purchase stuff to print with.
When done you most likely will increase the weight of the airplane significantly because all those gussets and fittings are going to weigh far more than a simple weld.
Cheapracer is experimenting with alternative methods. Ask him if everything has gone as smoothly as he had expected, or whether there have been unforseen problems along the way.
Vigilant1:
1)
Fittings made of stamped/pressed sheet metal, with included
gussets (i.e. riveted construction used by some British companies during WW-II). These handled some fairly sizeable loads, we're not talking about a pop-riveted hang glider fuselage)
2)
Internal fittings (forged?), perhaps brazed or riveted into straight-cut tubing. With 3D printers; it would seem practical to rapidly make a mold of any needed angle/cluster. They wouldn't necessarily need to be "solid" parts of cylindrical cross-section, simple metal "webs" would be lighter and just as strong as the tubing, though they'd need enough area to mate with the tubing)
3) External fittings (forged),
brazed or riveted onto straight-cut tubing (similar to the lugs found on some bicycle frames).
4) Other?
Winginitt: How much
penetration do you think a
brazed fitting has ?
Winginitt:
Actually this thread is so old I had forgotten that I had posted on it. You have said that you don't want to consider welding because it takes too long to learn. In the two years since you originated this thread you could easily have learned to weld proficiently. How much progress have you made on your alternative processes in that time ? Instead of being combative when someone (me) simply tries to help you, it might be wise to at least consider that they could have a point worth listening to. I spent years in manufacturing (hands on) and more years in inpection and project managing. Also spent time in a technical material group. I can tell you from first hand experience that designing and making all those alternative components is going to be far more involved than simple tube fitting and welding will be. Most likely it won't be as strong either. You know, I actually feel sorry for those people who grew up in an environment where they were never exposed to working on mechanical things or spent time trying to learn how to do many things them selves simply because they had no money. Learning to weld opens up new horizons and I've never heard anyone say they were sorry they had learned to weld. Many gave up because they bought cheap basically useless machines and got poor results, but no one who ever bought a decent machine and learned to weld has regretted it. If you look at the professional race car chassis made today, you will find all of them are Tig welded.....not O/A, not gusseted, and not brazed.
