# Still breathing!

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#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Business as usual for me. Until I run out of respirators for painting and 'm working on a fresh air supply type, so I'm no longer reliant on them. Poly Fiber is right here on the field at Flabob, so my supplies are assured. And I barely have contact with the public in any case. Work is still coming in and there has been zero effect on that so far, though I'm there will be some trickle-down effect down the line.
After using fresh air hoods for many years, I would never go back to respirators. Never get a smell and lots of cool fresh air and easier to see what I am doing.

#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
This chart makes perfect sense, substituting margarine for butter would be sufficient cause for a divorce to me.
But which way does the causation arrow go? It could be that, looking at the household budget post divorce, there's only enough dough for the cheapest margarine available--to go in the cheapest mac and cheese mix. . . Every night.
She Got the Gold Mine, I Got the Shaft. (Jerry Reed

PS. 30+ years of marital bliss here. She's a very patient gal.

#### gtae07

##### Well-Known Member
A really good NYT article about how and why Germany has much lower death rate than any other country. Should work without subscription.
I have a friend who’s a PhD epidemiologist in California. His answer is simple: “the Germans are doing what they’re supposed to be doing and staying home”.

#### don january

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Covid-19 numbers still climbing in upper mid west. And was thinking of mask compared to ventilator. When in the fleet of the USMC I had to go to the gas test chamber and test new military issue complete body suit for chemical warfare and remember clearly and small amount of burning on the back of my neck once in the chamber. To this day I still have doubt about just how effective any of them really are ??

#### Cunning_Runt

##### Member
My childhood best friend died in his sleep a few days ago and we won’t know what it was for months. The test portion of the autopsy system in NY is backed up so badly. He had been drinking like 5-6 energy drinks a day because he was so weak. His father found him dead on the same day his wife died of cancer 21 years earlier.

He was an incredibly intelligent guy but was never able to use it because of how his family had struggled growing up. Scored extremely high on his ASVAB despite having to drop out of school, and spent time in the Navy working on aircraft. He left behind two kids, including a 5 year old little boy who looks like he will be as smart as his Dad was. We are hoping he turns out well.

I won’t be able to go to his funeral. My job is considered essential and I’ve been traveling around a lot. Have seen very few people showing symptoms until now. Suddenly it’s becoming more common in the rural areas and most have not locked down, and people are just going around coughing on everything.

A veterans retirement home near my childhood home ignored isolation orders and put an infected patient with dozens of other patients. He infected at least 50 of them and 20+ have died so far. The head of the facility was removed for incompetence.
That's a tragic story, Doggzilla. Sorry for your loss.

#### PMD

##### Well-Known Member
My childhood best friend died in his sleep a few days ago and we won’t know what it was for months. The test portion of the autopsy system in NY is backed up so badly. He had been drinking like 5-6 energy drinks a day because he was so weak. His father found him dead on the same day his wife died of cancer 21 years earlier.

He was an incredibly intelligent guy but was never able to use it because of how his family had struggled growing up. Scored extremely high on his ASVAB despite having to drop out of school, and spent time in the Navy working on aircraft. He left behind two kids, including a 5 year old little boy who looks like he will be as smart as his Dad was. We are hoping he turns out well.

I won’t be able to go to his funeral. My job is considered essential and I’ve been traveling around a lot. Have seen very few people showing symptoms until now. Suddenly it’s becoming more common in the rural areas and most have not locked down, and people are just going around coughing on everything.

A veterans retirement home near my childhood home ignored isolation orders and put an infected patient with dozens of other patients. He infected at least 50 of them and 20+ have died so far. The head of the facility was removed for incompetence.
Really sad to hear. I have been corresponding with MY HS, university, etc. lifelong best friend who lives right smack in downtown Toronto (a hot spot). Smart enough guy to do a good job of staying isolated (retired from day job, hobby business from home now) but this thing is a very sharp reminder of just how fragile our lives can be when up against Mother Nature.

In the news similar to the retirement home you mentioned: the government of Australia (one state) is investigating Carnival Lines who visited one of their ports with many COVID infected who came ashore...AFTER crisis well known and officially declared pandemic by WHO. The result so far is hundreds of Australians dead from that one irresponsible act. That same line looking for $6 BILLION in US gov't bailout money!!! #### PMD ##### Well-Known Member COVID-19 is very small virus. I bet only very professional face mask will be enough for doctors who have to work with infected patients daily. 61 docs were dead because of the virus in Italy....already week ago. In a strange string of co-incidences, a company owned by a good friend who I do tech consulting for (in petro biz), since I am his tech sounding board for oil filtration (and such) sent me a bunch of spec sheets for medical masks. Since I knew less than zero on the subject, I was fascinated to get into the question of efficacy. On a purely particle size basis, I doubt there is a single affordable filtration medium around that will block a corona virus (0.06 to 0.14 micrometers in diameter). The big brand filtration media (twilled/felted polypropylene fiber) seems to bottom out around 0.3 microns absolute). However: it is pretty unlikely a dry virus would be floating around (if it was, it could stay airborne almost indefinitely due to its size). Most are being transported out by cough or sneeze (can be fairly large drops) but those would easily be caught by just about anything, and if not, fall quickly to whatever is beneath. Problem is: they can persist from 1 to 4 DAYS on surfaces and IMHO it is touch transfer that is the largest risk. The smaller droplets are another issue altogether with masks. What people don't seem to realize is that medical masks are designed to protect the WEARER, not those around. It is extremely difficult to get a good seal (there are a few grading systems for sealing and filtration efficiency) and all such testing is done based on INHALATION, not exhalation. Some of these disposable medical/surgical masks even use exhalation valves - so it tells you something. When you exhale hard (i.e. cough or sneeze - typical COVID symptoms and spreading method) the pressure will lift the mask and spill the smaller droplets and vapours (all rich in virus) out into the open. These droplets can stay airborne and virus viable for up to 3 hours. These medical masks (N95, N99s, FFP2, FFP3, etc.) are also rated for viral penetration - so this confirms my belief that it is the water droplet is doing the job. What I DON'T know is what happens when the water evaporates and your breathing might be able to move these TINY particles freely either into the mask to infect wearer or out of the mask to infect others. I have seen one "magic mask" rated PHH3 that claims 0.027 micron effective, but it seems to use the filtration medium layer as 0.3 micron masks - and is coming from a country I have a tough time believing in. This is all for medical masks. Anything less than that is going to be a lot lower on the performance scale. Jury rigged masks (as some jurisdictions allow for entering occupied buildings and public space) are no different from coughing into your sleeve, just that they DO guarantee there is something that will catch big gobs when you do so. I am babbling on about this for the fear I now have that wearing a mask may be SOME level of protection and comfort, but it can (and I believe WILL) do is give people very false hope that they are some kind of effective barrier and they can then dispense with social distancing or isolation. The gold standard for surviving the Wuhan Virus is isolation...COMPLETE lack of contact with anything that has not been disinfected or allowed to stand sufficient time based on surface condition to be safe. False hope (of masks) could easily undo what good the mask itself MIGHT do, especially if asymptomatic carriers are wearing them (and you can bet there will be tens or hundreds of thousands of those as next few weeks go on). Oh: and masks that do not protect your eyes leave one major route for infection wide open. Sorry for the long post, but I went into this to try to figure out how to get effective PPE for our youngest daughter (veterinary ER and trauma surgeon) who's clinic can not get equipment at this time...and MUST remain open (only one 24x7 vet hospital in her region). Had this exact discussion with an epidemiologist last night who told me I had pretty much figured it out. Sadly, he also told me that the rate of mutation (ability to re-infect) was not really understood yet. Just thought it might benefit some here from my limited but intense experience. #### dog ##### Well-Known Member In a strange string of co-incidences, a company owned by a good friend who I do tech consulting for (in petro biz), since I am his tech sounding board for oil filtration (and such) sent me a bunch of spec sheets for medical masks. Since I knew less than zero on the subject, I was fascinated to get into the question of efficacy. On a purely particle size basis, I doubt there is a single affordable filtration medium around that will block a corona virus (0.06 to 0.14 micrometers in diameter). The big brand filtration media (twilled/felted polypropylene fiber) seems to bottom out around 0.3 microns absolute). However: it is pretty unlikely a dry virus would be floating around (if it was, it could stay airborne almost indefinitely due to its size). Most are being transported out by cough or sneeze (can be fairly large drops) but those would easily be caught by just about anything, and if not, fall quickly to whatever is beneath. Problem is: they can persist from 1 to 4 DAYS on surfaces and IMHO it is touch transfer that is the largest risk. The smaller droplets are another issue altogether with masks. What people don't seem to realize is that medical masks are designed to protect the WEARER, not those around. It is extremely difficult to get a good seal (there are a few grading systems for sealing and filtration efficiency) and all such testing is done based on INHALATION, not exhalation. Some of these disposable medical/surgical masks even use exhalation valves - so it tells you something. When you exhale hard (i.e. cough or sneeze - typical COVID symptoms and spreading method) the pressure will lift the mask and spill the smaller droplets and vapours (all rich in virus) out into the open. These droplets can stay airborne and virus viable for up to 3 hours. These medical masks (N95, N99s, FFP2, FFP3, etc.) are also rated for viral penetration - so this confirms my belief that it is the water droplet is doing the job. What I DON'T know is what happens when the water evaporates and your breathing might be able to move these TINY particles freely either into the mask to infect wearer or out of the mask to infect others. I have seen one "magic mask" rated PHH3 that claims 0.027 micron effective, but it seems to use the filtration medium layer as 0.3 micron masks - and is coming from a country I have a tough time believing in. This is all for medical masks. Anything less than that is going to be a lot lower on the performance scale. Jury rigged masks (as some jurisdictions allow for entering occupied buildings and public space) are no different from coughing into your sleeve, just that they DO guarantee there is something that will catch big gobs when you do so. I am babbling on about this for the fear I now have that wearing a mask may be SOME level of protection and comfort, but it can (and I believe WILL) do is give people very false hope that they are some kind of effective barrier and they can then dispense with social distancing or isolation. The gold standard for surviving the Wuhan Virus is isolation...COMPLETE lack of contact with anything that has not been disinfected or allowed to stand sufficient time based on surface condition to be safe. False hope (of masks) could easily undo what good the mask itself MIGHT do, especially if asymptomatic carriers are wearing them (and you can bet there will be tens or hundreds of thousands of those as next few weeks go on). Oh: and masks that do not protect your eyes leave one major route for infection wide open. Sorry for the long post, but I went into this to try to figure out how to get effective PPE for our youngest daughter (veterinary ER and trauma surgeon) who's clinic can not get equipment at this time...and MUST remain open (only one 24x7 vet hospital in her region). Had this exact discussion with an epidemiologist last night who told me I had pretty much figured it out. Sadly, he also told me that the rate of mutation (ability to re-infect) was not really understood yet. Just thought it might benefit some here from my limited but intense experience. Excellent info. As to the question of efficacy. ONE POINT THREE BILLION,Chinees cant be wrong. As individuals in a group its all down to averages and how we can effect those. That means a new skill set, so practice all the moves,distancing, only touching what you must when out,never touch your face without washing your hands first,treat your street ware as infected and put it strait in the wash,etc,etc,etc. Treat all outside activity as hard IFR,train for it and do it by the numbers. #### Topaz ##### Super Moderator Staff member Log Member Well I'm officially in the group of knowing someone that knows someone that died of Covid. Mom's life long friend went to convention in California first week of March, got fever 2 weeks later, in hospital and on ventilator 1 week after first fever, died 1 week after that. 1 month from infected to dead. . She was in her upper 70's, but in excellent health otherwise. No preexisting anything. Keep safe out there. I'm very sorry to hear of your mom's loss. My condolences to her and the friends and family of the woman who passed. #### Topaz ##### Super Moderator Staff member Log Member Moderator Note: Please, all, let's keep this thread as a "personal check-in" for HBA members. We're not going to solve the problems of the virus, of masks, respirators, defense funding, or anything else here. I know this subject is on everyone's mind, 24/7, but as much as possible let's keep HBA as a refuge from topics that are best covered in other fora, and not turn this into a general "COVID-19" discussion thread. Checking in/with on our fellow members is about the HBA "family", and it's a great idea. Thanks. #### Pops ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Log Member If things stays about the same, wife and I plan on driving the 32 miles on back roads to my daugther's remote place for Passover Thursday morning. My Dodge van and 2 wheel drive 3/4 ton truck couldn't make it since they are not 4 wheel drive so she will have to meet us at the locked gate on her road and take us out the ridge in the 4 wheel drive. They took my camper out there a couple weeks ago. #### autopilot ##### Well-Known Member SUPRISE! I'm in Suzhou, China. Arrived 3 weeks ago before confinement was back dated. Had 2 days of freedom, 12days absolute confinement, have been tested and cleared about 5 days ago but still waiting for my 'GREEN CODE' clearance without which I cannot access Public Service buildings. We are allowed out and about although we cannot access the underground but can use busses. Temperature is taken at the entrance to all large shopping areas, living areas and public transport. All is good here, people are going about their "normal" lives, and "local" tourists are touristing. The initial response may have been questionable, but the follow through was and is effective. I feel very safe. Every-one (almost) wears masks (not a panacea) although "social distancing is not always possible). Back in Aust. in a few weeks. Stay well #### Speedboat100 ##### Well-Known Member I am okay...just went to buy some lumber in a hardware store and found that they no longer had masks. #### Hot Wings ##### Grumpy Cynic HBA Supporter Log Member Day three: It has begun. Day 6: The camels nose has appeared. She sits 1.5 meters away at her keyboard in clothing that she would never consider wearing to ..........Walmart. This violates the prime directive that was agreed to at the start of the "work from home" adventure. I just wonder how she will now justify the expenditure of resources, that we call dollars, for cloths - and shoes - now? How does this relate to HBA? Maybe the savings on cloths will be at least partially redirected to aviation activities? Probably not. #### TFF ##### Well-Known Member You better watch it or she will redirect everything into shoes and clothes. Leave you on the curb. #### Victor Bravo ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter Doggzilla, My condolences for your loss. However, 5-6 energy drinks a day have been shown to be fatal in and of themselves, separate from anything else. This told to me by a qualified biologist (and airplane guy). He said that one a day is fine, your body can get rid of the stuff that causes the problem, but when you start to reach for that second one... STOP. #### RogFlyer ##### Member HBA Supporter Really sad to hear. I have been corresponding with MY HS, university, etc. lifelong best friend who lives right smack in downtown Toronto (a hot spot). Smart enough guy to do a good job of staying isolated (retired from day job, hobby business from home now) but this thing is a very sharp reminder of just how fragile our lives can be when up against Mother Nature. In the news similar to the retirement home you mentioned: the government of Australia (one state) is investigating Carnival Lines who visited one of their ports with many COVID infected who came ashore...AFTER crisis well known and officially declared pandemic by WHO. The result so far is hundreds of Australians dead from that one irresponsible act. That same line looking for$6 BILLION in US gov't bailout money!!!
Just for the record - as of 2pm EST 8th April 2020, there have been 51 recorded/reported COVID 19 deaths in Australia. There were of the order of 200 to 250 transmitted infections (people who were not passengers) as reported by the media. At present, I cannot find anything definitive about how many of these deaths were as a result of infected passengers from this boat.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
My personal approach of sterilizing the local atmosphere has been effective, at least through yesterday. I accomplish that by catalyzing small quantities of vinyl ester resin in my workshop.

BJC

#### oriol

##### Well-Known Member
In this part of the world things seem to be going for a bit better, thanks god. On a positive note it is somehow remarkable how people have adapted to the situation and remain calm. From a homebuilt perspective it is good to have time to spend on the drawboard. I hope this situation will serve us to improve.

Stay well,

Oriol

#### lr27

##### Well-Known Member
My personal approach of sterilizing the local atmosphere has been effective, at least through yesterday. I accomplish that by catalyzing small quantities of vinyl ester resin in my workshop.

BJC
If that smells anything like polyester resin, the cure is worse than the disease. Or even if it doesn't cure.