Raptor Composite Aircraft

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ImperfectSense

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They are installed on the aircraft,look more closely ,maybe older videos.
What are we looking for, and where are they supposed to be located? Because in the first flight video, from the POV where we can see from the aileron spade on in, I don't see anything.... other than what I assumed was a tiedown lug?
 

wsimpso1

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I dunno, if it was really too limber, we'd be seeing a lot of flex even in the 1g condition shown in the video. All we actually see is movement from the image stabilization. The resonant frequency shown in the earlier vid looks about right, and if you haven't gotten a Cessna 150 or a Champ flapping like that, you just haven't tried hard enough. You have to give it a jolt, see how long it takes to return from the other wingtip, and then reinforce that wavelength. Pretty soon you'll have those lost 3/8" sockets and leftover AN960s dancing.
It seems we talked about this way back when PM had the airplane on foam blocks and was wiggling the airplane on the blocks. To me it looked like mostly rigid body roll movement on the blocks, something I can show anybody on most spam cans while sitting on their gear. I am with BoKu on this. While the wings might be a little soft in bending and torsion, you could not prove anything was wrong with that demo.

On top of that, we can watch for significant bending and torsion on the various land backs and the recent flight video, and I am not able to pick out any real amount of wing flex...

Billski
 

rv6ejguy

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It seems we talked about this way back when PM had the airplane on foam blocks and was wiggling the airplane on the blocks. To me it looked like mostly rigid body roll movement on the blocks, something I can show anybody on most spam cans while sitting on their gear. I am with BoKu on this. While the wings might be a little soft in bending and torsion, you could not prove anything was wrong with that demo.

On top of that, we can watch for significant bending and torsion on the various land backs and the recent flight video, and I am not able to pick out any real amount of wing flex...

Billski
I disagree. My RV-6 and RV-10 don't flex at the root anywhere close to this, in fact it is not perceptible at all. The other wing moves in perfect unison and it stops right now (one cycle) when I stop inputting force. The -10 has a similar aspect ratio to Raptor. The camera in Peter's video is sitting on a stand or tripod so there are no stabilization artifacts happening there.

In flight, who knows what's happening without video from a chase plane but the flex and lack of dampening worry me in that ground test on a wing with such a moderate AR.
 
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wsimpso1

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I looked at your stills...and what are they supposed to mean, or not mean?

Look, you've spent a lot of space here talking about image stabilization. I'm merely asking you to show something that actually backs up what you are claiming.
I have looked at all the video of the landbacks and the one real flight, and the wings look straight to me throughout. That means that the bending or twisting is pretty small. Could it be root deflection? Not likely either - in the hangar video, the far tip is moving and it looks like it is opposite motion to the near one, which does indicate that this is mostly rigid body motion - the whole wing is vibrating on the foam blocks... Is it small enough for Vdive at flight level 240? We can not tell this way. Maybe a full up flutter analysis...There are plenty of other very real issues in this bird.

Billski
 
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berridos

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madrid
I guess your financial thriller post will be moderated, but for a couple of seconds my brain started smoking overclocked by your proverb.
 

Victor Bravo

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The video of the ground resonance testing (re-posted by BoKu in Post 7565) has a "forced perspective" where (to my eyes) you cannot see the wing root. To my eyes, you're looking at the top rear wing skin and aileron, but you can't actually see anywhere near the root end of the wing, or the strake. And you can't see any of the thickest part of the wing where the spar is.

So the portion of the wing you see bouncing up and down may only be the outboard three or five feet of the span. I am simply not getting how anyone is talking about wing root flex based on this video???

And I'm still waiting on those (implied, hoped-for) promises that Stevie and Farrah made when I was juuust a little bit younger....
 

Wild Bill

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As someone pointed out last time the wing flex was discussed, vertical movement (in the video) might be very small.
The camera was likely very close to the trailing edge. The total movement out where the camera was might be less than an inch.
 

cblink.007

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Thanks Victor for bringing this up. I personally felt ashamed that my fellow builders would find nothing but fault in a first flight that Peter spent years and years working towards. Sad.
Jeff Liot
As an XP and FTE who has followed this project, I respectfully disagree with you.

PM has plastered all his work online for all the world to see. As such, all of us who have developed and tested an aircraft system could only watch and scratch our heads. We saw alot of writing on the wall. Many of us tried reaching out to offer practical aerodynamic, structural and powertrain engineering advice. All of it fell on deaf ears.

Bottom line- this aircraft is not, and likely will not deliver on all his ober-hyped promises to his clients and investors. He is in a pickle. Big time.

While we congratulate him on the flight, the accolades stopped there. Taking the aircraft up (he even mentioned rushing it to the runway) the way he did was reckless and irresponsible. No real test plan...just winging it and seeing what happens. Asking people on youtube to chime in to offer suggestions as to identifying and solving the aircraft's behavior...much less without any useable aero & mass properties data? Are you kidding me? This is not how you develop or test an aircraft intended for production. It is in fact, far from professional. It is amateur.

Many of us want to be wrong on our based, educated opinions, but we are hard pressed to think there is any scenario where this ends well.

I wish him luck.
 
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flywheel1935

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Downham Market, Norfolk, Great Britain.
While we congratulate him on the flight, the accolades stopped there. Taking the aircraft up (he even mentioned rushing it to the runway) the way he did was reckless and irresponsible. No real test plan...just winging it and seeing what happens. Asking people on youtube to chime in on suggestions as to identifying and solving the aircrafts behavior? Are you kidding me? This is not how you develop or test an aircraft intended for production. It is in fact, far from professional.
I actually posted a similar comment on his YT Video, and it's still there, ( which is a big surprise ), Several posters also vented there dismay at his cavalier attitude to the whole sorry saga. He has made little attempt at replying, maybe for once his 'look how clever I am attitude' may have resulted in a reality check?
 

Rod Schneider

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On a serious note, is anyone around the Valdosta area that can go check on Peter? His youtube channel has 5 days and over 1,500 comments since the flight, and Peter is conspicuously absent. No comments from him at all. Some of the comments that are still up are the type that he typically gets rid of quickly. I seriously hope he is ok and hasn't skipped town or worse..........
 

pictsidhe

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On a serious note, is anyone around the Valdosta area that can go check on Peter? His youtube channel has 5 days and over 1,500 comments since the flight, and Peter is conspicuously absent. No comments from him at all. Some of the comments that are still up are the type that he typically gets rid of quickly. I seriously hope he is ok and hasn't skipped town or worse..........
Skipping town would be bad? His investors have already lost their money. This aircraft will never get into production with Peter at the helm.
If he bales out now, we just get to miss out on peering into a smoking hole in ground, doing Tim impressions.

 
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