Nurflugelphobia

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Aerowerx, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. Jul 20, 2019 #1

    Aerowerx

    Aerowerx

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    Since some HBA members have used the word "obsession" to describe the interest in tailless aircraft, I have come up with a a term for those who make negative comments on pure flying wings.

    NURFLUGELPHOBIA: The fear of flying wings.;)
     
  2. Jul 20, 2019 #2

    Bill-Higdon

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    ;)
     
  3. Jul 20, 2019 #3

    Vigilant1

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    And we have its opposite, "Ouraphobia"--an unreasoned aversion to using aircraft tail surfaces. From the Greek. "Billy's ouraphobia doomed his designs to very limited CG, marginal handling characteristics, and performance that lagged more conventional designs." :)

    I don't understand why some folks have such aversion to tail.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  4. Jul 20, 2019 #4

    Speedboat100

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    I like nurflugel as an idea...I just think we have to start producing them in large quantities...with rudders.
     
  5. Jul 20, 2019 #5

    Hot Wings

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    If someone else is building it and then folding/removing for trailering I have absolutely no objection.

    If I have to preform those tasks a pure wing looks very appealing. I'm willing to settle for conventional yaw control as a compromise.
     
  6. Jul 20, 2019 #6

    henryk

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    -the tail=very good ,draggy element...

    the birds are needed in it in landing/start phase...in fly the tail is "closed" !
     
  7. Jul 21, 2019 #7

    Aerowerx

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    Ever seen a bird with a vertical tail?

    And bird tails are control surfaces, not for stability!
     
  8. Jul 21, 2019 #8

    Aerowerx

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    Not necessarily. Just design it for the desired static margin when empty. Find the CG. And then place the crew and fuel at that location. Static margin then will not change with load.
    There are plenty of "conventional designs" that have marginal handling characteristics and performance, so that is not a good basis to judge flying wings.

    Have you seen a shrink about your Nurflugelphobia?;)
     
  9. Jul 21, 2019 #9

    FritzW

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    I know this is meant as a joke (and it's a good one) but phobia means irrational fear not dislike. I suffer from real Nurflugelphobia ;) I don't know anything about flying wings but they scare me. And I don't think I've ever made a negative comment about them.
     
  10. Jul 21, 2019 #10

    pictsidhe

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    Aha, the problem is that you don't know anything about them!

    Although you'll often seen me shooting down nurflugel ideas, it's because I'm really interested in them. Interested enough to have done a lot of my own research and find a lot of their pitfalls. The things are tricksy to get right. You can't just, say, put a bigger tail surface on to solve some stability quirk.

    My nurflugel project is on hold. I need to start with something easier...
     
  11. Jul 21, 2019 #11

    12notes

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    I thought that was only if you were Nuflugephobic for over 4 hours?
     
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  12. Jul 21, 2019 #12

    mcrae0104

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    Would you please explain this a little? How could a bird's tail not contribute to stability?
     
  13. Jul 21, 2019 #13

    Aerowerx

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    Yes, it was a joke, FritzW. But it seems that some take the whole thing seriously.

    Just because someone likes the idea of a flying wing without a tail does not mean that they are obsessed, or has an aversion to tails. It just means they are interested in tailless aircraft and how to make them work. Myself, I am an engineer by training and talent. Although not an aero engineer, I just love tackling a tough technical problem and working it out until the end. In fact, there have been times when someone said "it can't be done", so I would go ahead and do it anyway to prove them wrong.

    Barnaby Wainfan, that built the famous Facetmobile, was an engineer for Northrup Grumman. You can not say he had an aversion to tails. As for tail vs tailless, he wrote a paper in 1989 titled "Let's consider airfoils for flying wings" In it he said:
    This implies that there are lessons learned from flying wings that can be used to improve tailed aircraft.
     
  14. Jul 21, 2019 #14

    Aerowerx

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    I refer you to Al Bowers paper.

    And this website:
     
  15. Jul 21, 2019 #15

    mcrae0104

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    For some reason, neither of those links will open for me. It could be because of my marginal cell reception here in Camp Scholler.

    Nevertheless, area aft of the CG contributes to stability, even for birds.
     
  16. Jul 21, 2019 #16

    Aerowerx

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    It seems I pasted the same link, to Al's paper, twice. Here is the correct 2nd one.

    The 2nd link states that birds furl their tails during high speed flight, so the area is smaller. Also, consider the area of the wing that is behind the CG. And don't forget that birds have real-time morphing wings, which is where most of the stability comes from.
     
  17. Jul 21, 2019 #17

    Charles_says

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    the original post by Aerowerx, was:
    I took it to specifically mean _horizontal stability_
    which is what the vertical tail provides.
     
  18. Jul 21, 2019 #18

    henryk

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    http://getyourimage.club/resize-21-july.html

    =KASPERwing...not bird like,but bird controll principe.
     
  19. Jul 21, 2019 #19

    Norman

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    Fixxed area contributes to stability but movable area does not. Bird's tails are not rigid so can not have a very big affect on stability even when spread open.
     
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  20. Jul 21, 2019 #20

    Speedboat100

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019

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