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cscardinal

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Hi folks. I've come to a point in my life where I would like to have a "legacy" build. This would be something that gets passed on after I go for its historical more than sentimental or financial value. I would like to build a pioneer aircraft with good flying characteristics, but there are too many choices and too little information. I've got 2D/3D CAD design skills, along with laser cutting and CNC in my background-though I hope to do as much hand-work as possible. I've also built a few (miniature) IC engines from scratch, so I'm not afraid of tackling that aspect as well.

I live less than an hour from the Rhinebeck Aerodrome, so I'm thinking I would have at least one field that would welcome me on a regular basis.

My top choices:

Bleriot XI
Blackburn Type D
Demoiselle
Antoinette
Dormoy Bathtub
Curtiss Type D
Farman "Carte Postale"

I prefer the pioneer aircraft over the more "reliable" craft of the 20's and later. LOL

Enough about me, what do are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Chris
 
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Victor Bravo

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I'm definitely not an expert on this segment of aviation, but it is my limited understanding that you will have a lot of trouble finding a pioneer aircraft with good handling characteristics.

You might visit the folks at Old Rhinebeck, because they have flown most of the pioneer aircraft and they can tell you which one(s) are even close to having good handling.

I'm guessing that the Fokker D-7 is going to be the winner in the handling category.

If you want to do a legacy thing, perhaps re-creating some aircraft that has an important legacy itself... like the Deperdussin monocoque or something you never see a modern reproduction of.

If you really want to have a set of big brass ones, do a replica of the Henri Coanda "jet" biplane, 1910 if I recall.
 

cscardinal

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Sep 13, 2015
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Danbury, CT
I'm definitely not an expert on this segment of aviation, but it is my limited understanding that you will have a lot of trouble finding a pioneer aircraft with good handling characteristics.

You might visit the folks at Old Rhinebeck, because they have flown most of the pioneer aircraft and they can tell you which one(s) are even close to having good handling.

I'm guessing that the Fokker D-7 is going to be the winner in the handling category.

If you want to do a legacy thing, perhaps re-creating some aircraft that has an important legacy itself... like the Deperdussin monocoque or something you never see a modern reproduction of.

If you really want to have a set of big brass ones, do a replica of the Henri Coanda "jet" biplane, 1910 if I recall.
So my list gets longer! LOL I had never even HEARD of the Coanda. That would be beyond cool, but I wonder how much documentation would be available for a reasonably accurate build. UPDATE: Not sure if it ever flew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coandă-1910

I will also add the Antoinette to my ever growing list. Must stop adding new models.

Keep it coming!

Chris
 

TFF

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I would build a Wright something of your list. Build American. Bleriot XI or Demoiselle would be nice for sure. Something Deperdussin would be nice too ;1913 racer for me, but it is pretty modern of this group. Fokker Spinne should not be lost either.
 

flyvulcan

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So my list gets longer! LOL I had never even HEARD of the Coanda. That would be beyond cool, but I wonder how much documentation would be available for a reasonably accurate build. UPDATE: Not sure if it ever flew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coandă-1910
About 10 years ago, I became friends with the Commanding Officer of the Romanian Air Force museum (Coanda was Romanian) which was then located at the entrance to Bucharest Otopeni (now Henri Coanda) Airport.

The museum had an extensive display for Henri Coanda and I can recall that there were drawings of his "Coanda effect" aircraft in the display.

If you are interested in the aircraft, you could likely get some useful information from the museum.
 

cscardinal

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About 10 years ago, I became friends with the Commanding Officer of the Romanian Air Force museum (Coanda was Romanian) which was then located at the entrance to Bucharest Otopeni (now Henri Coanda) Airport.

The museum had an extensive display for Henri Coanda and I can recall that there were drawings of his "Coanda effect" aircraft in the display.

If you are interested in the aircraft, you could likely get some useful information from the museum.
I would NEVER say no to anyone offering help like this! Documentation is key for a project like this.

Cheers,

Chris
 

flyvulcan

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Actually, looking at the Wiki, I noted the following excerpt:

Construction on a full-sized functional replica of the plane began in March 2010 at Craiova, Romania, by a team of engineers and former test pilots from I.R.Av. Craiova.[81] The replica is based on plans that Coandă reworked in 1965 because the 1910 plans were lost. It uses metal for the fuselage rather than wood, and its intended engine is a true jet, the Motorlet M-701, made for the 1960s-era Aero L-29 Delfín military trainer.

So it seems that there may be a set of plans floating around for the Coanda aircraft. You could probably trace the team working on this replica by contacting I.R.Av. Craiova and asking them for the contact details of someone on the replica team.
 

cluttonfred

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I'm a sucker for little-known early French aircraft, and you mentioned the Farman "Carte Postale," which would be a great choice along with some of other other early Farman lightplanes like the Sport biplane and Moustique series. The early Caudron designs with their long vertical fins are also very neat.
 

BJC

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Hi folks. I've come to a point in my life where I would like to have a "legacy" build. This would be something that gets passed on after I go for its historical more than sentimental or financial value. I would like to build a pioneer aircraft with good flying characteristics, but there are too many choices and too little information. I've got 2D/3D CAD design skills, along with laser cutting and CNC in my background-though I hope to do as much hand-work as possible. I've also built a few (miniature) IC engines from scratch, so I'm not afraid of tackling that aspect as well.

I live less than an hour from the Rhinebeck Aerodrome, so I'm thinking I would have at least one field that would welcome me on a regular basis.

My top choices:

Bleriot XI
Blackburn Type D
Demoiselle
Antoinette
Dormoy Bathtub
Curtiss Type D
Farman "Carte Postale"

I prefer the pioneer aircraft over the more "reliable" craft of the 20's and later. LOL

Enough about me, what do are your thoughts?

Thanks!

Chris
My favorite from your list is the Dormoy Bathtub. That is the very first airplane that I, as a very young boy, thought that I could build. Never did.

Not responsive to your question, but another thing that you might consider is taking on a restoration of one of the Old Rhinebeck aircraft. When I was there several years ago, most of their airplanes were languishing in a dimly lighted building without climate control. It was painful to see the neglect. The place and airplanes had been left to the State of New York, who, of course, had no budget even for basic maintenance. The place was being kept partially open totally by a small group of volunteers. I hope that you will report back that things there have improved.


BJC
 

FritzW

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The Dormoy Bathtub looks like a lot of fun.

The AVRO F might make a good little homebuilt also:
AVRO F rc.jpg
IMG_9161.jpg...that's my kind of construction;)
 

cscardinal

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Danbury, CT
My favorite from your list is the Dormoy Bathtub. That is the very first airplane that I, as a very young boy, thought that I could build. Never did.

Not responsive to your question, but another thing that you might consider is taking on a restoration of one of the Old Rhinebeck aircraft. When I was there several years ago, most of their airplanes were languishing in a dimly lighted building without climate control. It was painful to see the neglect. The place and airplanes had been left to the State of New York, who, of course, had no budget even for basic maintenance. The place was being kept partially open totally by a small group of volunteers. I hope that you will report back that things there have improved.


BJC

That's a very valid point regarding my taking on a restoration. I think it would still belong to the museum, and I could be "left out in the cold" should management change. I will investigate further though, I always could find more free time. LOL

C.
 
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cscardinal

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Danbury, CT
I would build a Wright something of your list. Build American. Bleriot XI or Demoiselle would be nice for sure. Something Deperdussin would be nice too ;1913 racer for me, but it is pretty modern of this group. Fokker Spinne should not be lost either.

Fokker Spinne might have too many cables even for me! :shock:
 

FritzW

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OOOOHHH! Avro. :lick:

Where did you find the modern build photo?

C.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A couple of guys are building one for the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester. It may be finished by now.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]MOSI – Manchester 2010 visit | Coningsby Aviation Site[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Episode 21 - Museum Of Science & Industry - Avro Aviation Collection - Flying PodcastFlying Podcast[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]...it'd be a fun build[/FONT]
 

cluttonfred

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For another approach, take a look at the British light aeroplane trials at Lympne of 1923, 1924 and 1926. The 1923 single-seaters are especially interesting and include everything from very conventional biplanes and strut-braced monoplanes to full-cantilever motorgliders. Several of the planes still exist including the de Havilland Hummingbird and English Electric Wren, both in the Shuttleworth Collection. For more info, beg, borrow or steal a copy of Richard Riding's great book Ultralights: The Early British Classics.
 

cscardinal

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Sep 13, 2015
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Location
Danbury, CT
For another approach, take a look at the British light aeroplane trials at Lympne of 1923, 1924 and 1926. The 1923 single-seaters are especially interesting and include everything from very conventional biplanes and strut-braced monoplanes to full-cantilever motorgliders. Several of the planes still exist including the de Havilland Hummingbird and English Electric Wren, both in the Shuttleworth Collection. For more info, beg, borrow or steal a copy of Richard Riding's great book Ultralights: The Early British Classics.
I actually have DXF plans for the WREN, provided by a large scale RC modeler. I may end up with *two* projects. One very early pioneer craft, followed by a more "modern" 20's era craft. There are just too many choices! The book you mentioned is on Abe Books and amazon, so it looks like I will have some fall reading to do.

Just about everything in the Shuttleworth collection is worth pursuing.

Cheers,

Chris
 

cscardinal

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Danbury, CT
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A couple of guys are building one for the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester. It may be finished by now.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]MOSI – Manchester 2010 visit | Coningsby Aviation Site[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Episode 21 - Museum Of Science & Industry - Avro Aviation Collection - Flying PodcastFlying Podcast[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]...it'd be a fun build[/FONT]
Fun indeed! I like the idea of staying dry in its tiny "cabin". I wonder if it's still too modern for my pioneer aspirations. Perhaps a phase 2 build? I may need to live to 150 to get all my projects completed! ;)

C.
 

cluttonfred

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cscardinal,

Obviously, your final project selection may well be driven by the resources you can find. There are many fantastic old aircraft out there for which plans are impossible to find. Shuttleworth might have drawings for the ones in their collection, and the research library at Le Bourget is quite helpful on French designs though only open to the public one Saturday a month.

Speaking of French designs, you might be interested in this thread, including some original Farman brochures at the end: https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/general-experimental-aviation-questions/10088-interest-modern-incarnation-farman-f-455-moustique.html

Any chance you could share the DXF Wren plans or even reduced-quality PDF or image files ? I'd love to see how it was put together.

You won't be disappointed by the Richard Riding book, it's one of my absolute favorites. I bought mine new when living in England in the 1990s and it's well-worn from use even though it's a well-made hardcover.

Cheers,

Matthew
 
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