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Kiwi303

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En Zed. Aka The Shire.
One thing everybody else may have missed is that he just said he was not going to buy or build an aircraft in his lifetime. So the question is what is the purpose of the discussion?
Well it is HANGAR flying... so just kicking a hypotheical ball around a hangar floor I guess.

The sort of waffle that happens standing around a BBQ holding a beer after a nice days activity.
 

Starjumper7

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Ecuador
One thing everybody else may have missed is that he just said he was not going to buy or build an aircraft in his lifetime. So the question is what is the purpose of the discussion?
One thing you may have missed is that this is a discussion forum, and the one here is titled as Hangar Flying.
 

Starjumper7

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I was at an EAA fly in in Arlington, Washington, and I saw some ultralights take off across the runway. I think that must have been only thirty feet. Of course, that was at sea level and with a headwind, but still, they probably didn't have such powerful engines as the one I'm envisioning.
 
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Starjumper7

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Ecuador
Zimmerman isn't going to help you - at sea level a zimmerman might parachute in a stall at a survivable rate of decent. At your altitude - that rate of descent isn't going to be survivable...

It all comes back to that altitude and location/weather.

I'm rarely one to say 'no good options' - all I can think of is hang gliders are out playing along the ridges when I cross the rockies. Maybe the powered trike style? But you'd probably need to make some compromises there too.
I think if the wing loading is low enough that 'parachuting' in a Zimmerman wouldn't be so unsafe. Parachuting isn't really the right word though. More like very steep descent into a flare.

Hang gliders do seem like a good possibility. There is a high cliff/drop off to the South of the house, which typically has a fierce updraft. No runway there, just another ridge top. You could stand on that edge and would levitate way up ... till you got to a downdraft ... or it might not be possible to get down till you're in the next county.
 

Starjumper7

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Ecuador
Here is a mountain danger article from today: Are you prepared to encounter a mountain wave?
Yes there are a lot of mountain waves here, caused by winds coming from the Amazon and blowing over the continental divide. Some times they form bands of clouds that stay in the same place for hours, and you can see the clouds growing along their eastern edge and dissipating at their western edge.
 

Dan Thomas

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I'm rarely one to say 'no good options' - all I can think of is hang gliders are out playing along the ridges when I cross the rockies. Maybe the powered trike style? But you'd probably need to make some compromises there too.
Those guys hang-gliding in the Rocks are doing it on days perfect for that. Some wind, not too much. Clear visibility. Those conditions are rare there, as they will be where the OP is. And the narrowness of that ravine he's in really makes it bad.

I've flown through the Rockies in less than ideal weather. It's no fun. You can get trapped between weather systems and get forced down. I've flown through terrible turbulence in there, too, in 30-kt winds. There have been plenty of airplanes come to grief in there. Some are still missing even after many years.
 

pchelandenny

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Bothell, WA USA
I was at an EAA fly in in Arlington, Washington, and I saw some ultralights take off across the runway. I think that must have been only thirty feet. Of course, that was at sea level and with a headwind, but still, they probably didn't have such powerful engines as the one I'm envisioning.
When was it that you saw the ultralights taking off across the runway? Recently or, say, about 4 or 5 years ago? I may know who that was and what engines they were using.
 

Jerry Lytle

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Newport, Oregon
I knew of a Taylor Craft that took off across the runway at Tillamook Oregon, The hay grass between the runways was allmost ready for mowing so the little bit of trimming it got hurt no one.
 

Starjumper7

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Ecuador
I had mentioned using one of the 900cc industrial V twins for a little more power, but it occurred to me that some of those two strokes may have just as much or more power?
 

blane.c

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capital district NY
We are taught when flying towards a mountain ridge to do so at an angle of around 45 degrees to the ridge so that if we encounter turbulence we can turn away and exit the area. Taking off in the middle of a ridge can be done if you pick your days for light winds but even then it is likely a matter of time before you get bitten.

When landing and taking off at remote air strips near ridge's typically the strip is at the base of the ridge and is orientated up and down another words, from the base of the ridge towards the top of the ridge. So you land going uphill and you take off going down hill. After landing the parking ramp should be sufficiently below the top of the ridge to avoid the brunt of prevailing wind. My standard briefing before take off on these types of runways included "V1 is brake release". I have had engine failure during take off and just continued without hesitation on the remaining engines, trying to stop is folly. For single engine craft a suitable area to crash straight ahead should be cleared.

Indian Mountain Lrrs Airport Map & Diagram (Utopia Creek, AK) [PAIM/UTO] - FlightAware

AirNav: PAIM - Indian Mountain LRRS Airport

You can see that the lower end of the runway is 300 feet below the high end in the chart information and although not at the elevation you are at shows a working successful runway into a ridge with high prevailing winds.

Though when winds are extreme one should endeavor not to be a test dummy, We have landed and taken off there with some pretty stiff breezes. It was also not uncommon to accept a tailwind as the ride uphill on rollout deaccelerates in fact with headwinds sometimes you will need to add power to make it to the ramp.

A wide variety of aircraft use this facility due to its large size but a smaller runway should be able to accommodate reasonable craft for your mission.
 

Pops

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Used to have a strip east of me , gravel strip up the side of a mountain where if you stopped on the runway with a tricycle airplane it would fall back on the tail skid. Then what are you going to do? Land with full power and don't stop but keep your speed up and get to the top for the flat place big enough to turn around. 1800' long.
 

BBerson

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Dec 16, 2007
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Port Townsend WA
I had mentioned using one of the 900cc industrial V twins for a little more power, but it occurred to me that some of those two strokes may have just as much or more power?
It's power to weight ratio. I checked the C-150 manual. It needs twice the runway at 7500 feet and 32°.
So an ultralight that can take off in 50 feet at sea level would need 100 feet. Landing run is about half. The problem is takeoff.
Can you fly down a valley after lift off?
 
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