experiamental fighter jet style aircraft

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by T-51ls1, Dec 7, 2012.

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  1. Dec 11, 2012 #81

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

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    I always liked the Berkut Airplane and thought it would make a good jet. It has high speed capabilities and has the engine in the right spot. To bad the company didn't stay around. I have heard there are still some unbuilt kits floating around out there that come up for sale every so often.

    Berkut 360 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    [​IMG]

    skeeter
     
  2. Dec 11, 2012 #82

    T-51ls1

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    Since i've started this thread, It's become clear that turbine engines are only designed for huge company's with millions to spend and for private use it's not pratical. Maybe some day i will play around with this idea. It was fun learning about these types of aircraft either way. I have found some kit planes out there that have decently high speed abilitys for just over 100k for the kit and that seems to be alot more worth while for me. I'm glad i started this thread and got to know more people in this community.
     
  3. Dec 11, 2012 #83

    autoreply

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    Mountain high is the standard. Pulsed oxygen, cutting down O2 consumption by a factor of 3-5. Filling is a major problem. Nobody wants to do it for you (certified bottles, medical oxygen etc).

    Welding, medical and aviation oxygen is all exactly the same, except for the price. Getting them to fill your bottle is the problem. Make sure your O2 tank is big enough for even the longest trips (at least 20 hours of O2 per occupant...)
     
  4. Dec 11, 2012 #84

    nerobro

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    It just struck me, you're in overland park. Go visit some manufacturers, I don't know if Cessna does tours, but you can visit belite http://www.beliteaircraft.com/ , and others. Go visit Forbes Field Combat Air Museum Home Page , take a walk around the planes they're restoring, go peer inside the connie. Look around, tell me if you can find the picture of Marilyn Monroe. And these guys : Kansas Aviation Museum

    So you've come down from turbines, what kits are you looking at now?
     
  5. Dec 11, 2012 #85

    bmcj

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    Or, there's always rockets...

    [video=youtube;0lXfy43L8Og]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lXfy43L8Og[/video]

    [video=youtube;JEPr3DRUS7Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEPr3DRUS7Y[/video]

    [video=youtube;VO0FW_TqL2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO0FW_TqL2k[/video]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  6. Dec 11, 2012 #86

    wsimpso1

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    Filling O2 bottles in the states is not that big a deal. On a trip, you go to the AFD, for the airport you are visiting, and look for oxygen. Sometimes, it takes some searching, but it is there. It may seem pricey, but then so is everything related to flying.

    If you are using a fair bit of O2 from home, it is easy. Welding O2 is medical O2. Both come from the same liquid air facilities, no water, no lubricants - this is oxygen and having anything but O2 in the bottle is BAAAAD.

    For best economy, use three bottles with pressure gauges on a manifold. Hook up the manifold to your airplane bottle, turn on only the lowest pressure welding bottle and fill until the portable stops gaining pressure. Turn off the low pressure bottle, turn on the medium pressure one, fill as much as you can, then turn it off, and top off with the highest pressure bottle. This way, you can use the highest pressure bottle more times before it drops too much.

    Tricks to get more O2 in the airplane system is to fill with the bottle cold, maybe even chilling the bottle between or during the fill. A garage with a freezer in it is almost perfect for this. Built-in systems, well try to do it with the bottle as cool as you can.

    Billski
     
  7. Dec 12, 2012 #87

    T-51ls1

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    I looked at a couple of websites were they are talking about the different types of oxygen tanks and breathing systems. I found a couple of kits that would buy if i had an aircraft about ready to fly. One i found that was like 4,000 dollars was a full kit for two people that had regulators, mask's, and a dash board display that would tell you the how much pressure you had in the tanks. It would show other thing's but i cant remember off the top of my head. As for kit's that i've been looking at i've looked at the titan t-51 replica mustang kit. I'm more leaning towards the legend aircraft kit. They use a turbine engine but i think there is a way to fit a piston engine in the engine noscelle. I want to find a kit that has enough strength to hold an automotive engine. I've worked with the chevy LS series engine's a lot and i think they would do just fine in an aircraft. They are very reliable and easily fixed or maintained. Thats just one idea i've had since i first started looking into building a plane.
     
  8. Dec 12, 2012 #88

    Toobuilder

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    BTW, the Legend is most certainly strong enough to handle a V8... It was designed around the Big Block Chevy... The turbine came along later, and turned out to be such a good performer (at about the same FWF cost), that the piston versions just aren't seen anymore.
     
  9. Dec 12, 2012 #89

    bmcj

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    Oops. Deleted post...posted in wrong thread. :emb:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  10. Dec 12, 2012 #90

    T-51ls1

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    That's good to know! I love the look and the ability's of the legend aircraft. My plan was to use a ls3 engine and slap twin turbo's for added performance. They don't add that much weight but i figure it would still be close to the turbine engine. It would have easily double the horsepower as well if turned up but i would keep it low to have the engine last longer. I've seen some of those spitfire replica's with v8's or one with a big block. I love how those bird's sound when they fly over.
     
  11. Dec 12, 2012 #91

    Toobuilder

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    IIRC, the Legend first flew with a 540 inch Rodeck. This FWF was about as stout as has ever been seen with an automotive engine, and still didn't cut it on the Legend. Though the airframe is designed (again IIRC) for 1000 horsepower, the turbine came out way ahead. Trying to better the failed Rodeck with an LS3 is a tall order indeed, and you will likely find (as the designer did) that the math works better for the turbine.
     
  12. Dec 12, 2012 #92

    Mark Z

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    I'd be curious as to how many airframes with automotive powerplants have over 1000 hours on them.
     
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  13. Dec 12, 2012 #93

    T-51ls1

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    The ls3 is a monster when it's boosted. There is a car here in kansas with a built LS3 with a single turbo and it's making almost 1000hp on medium boost level's. I would want to keep it around 700hp so you keep it reliable and it wont break down as fast like if it were pushing 1000hp all the time. I would imagine there are a few with over 1000 hours. I've seen high horsepower LS motor's with over 200k miles on them so thats easily over 1000 plus hours of driving. I think the reason the 540 didn't do well was because it sounds like it was naturally aspirated which loses power faster at higher altitude. Boosted engine's can maintain their peak power levels better because its already getting forced air at any altitude.
     
  14. Dec 12, 2012 #94

    DangerZone

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    You could try looking into the BD-10 airplane story, it is interesting how the idea of a homebuilt jet was popular even more than two decades ago...

    BD-10 Homebuilt Supersonic Jet Aircraft (2 of 2) - YouTube
    bede_bd-10.jpg

    The project ended because there was a flutter problem of the empenage, the tail was not designed well and just tore off when achieving resonant speed. But it was a great design, check the ViperJet also to get the idea of a small fighter-like private jet. ;)

    29.jpg

    If you want less jet fuel burnt check the Legend which has a turboprop engine. It is in the similar price range but maintenance and jet burn cost could allow you some more flying for the same bucks.

    And if you want the jet like feeling but with a conventional engine you could see upgrades of homebuilt aircraft with upgrades, like the turbocharged F1 rocket some have done and fly pretty well.

    See which model seems the best and most affordable, because in the end, money and time are the biggest issues.With lots of money you could build anything you desire but with an average budget quite a few nice airplanes could be built in your backyard.


    And don't worry about altitude, you can fly easily up to 5500m with no oxygen, even higher if you are healthy. Some sailplane pilots cruise at 6000m for hours without problem, if they ever get dizzy over 8000m they just have a sip or two of oxygen and/or lower the altitude. When you'll get more experienced and have more flying hours behind you it will all become clear and a good flying school will certainly tell you everything about high altitude flying.

    Good luck and have fun.
     
  15. Dec 12, 2012 #95

    Topaz

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    That's illegal in the USA, and contrary to every established practice on the subject. This is bad​ advice.
     
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  16. Dec 12, 2012 #96

    DangerZone

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    I'm talking about the physical ability of a healthy human being and you are talking about legal aspects of flying. Yet I am sure that whichever flying school he chooses in the USA they will train him and inform him properly about all the legal issues of flying.

    BTW, I've seen American sailplanes and homebuilts fly at or above 5500m in the USA, were they all flying illegally?
     
  17. Dec 12, 2012 #97

    autoreply

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    Sorry to be so blunt, but this is utter nonsense, dangerous nonsense I might add. I have done such flights (with oxygen) and anybody who ever has done so knows that what you propose as "without problem" is guaranteed death.

    Flying to 5500 m without oxygen will make you euphoric, I'll give you that. But dying a minutes later in euphoria is such a climax...
     
  18. Dec 12, 2012 #98

    rv6ejguy

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    I know of 3 V8 powered aircraft with over 1000 hours each on them, Gary Spencer's LongEze with a Ford DD small block, Gordon Wardstrom's Bearhawk with a Rover V8 and the Robinson Seabee demonstrator (1900 hours). Also is a Pawnee glider tug in Australia with an LS1 that had 500 hours on it back in 2010 with only exhaust system cracking issues, no engine or PSRU issues. I believe you'd want to derate any small block V8 to down around 400hp for regular use to get some decent life and reliability out of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  19. Dec 12, 2012 #99

    nerobro

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    You're about to go the same place you went with your airframe dreams. :)

    Airplanes engines are 1940's tech. But that's not the whole story.

    Making 700hp from an auto engine is one thing. Making 700hp for a few hours, is another thing. Making 700hp for 500 hours is an entirely different story.
     
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  20. Dec 12, 2012 #100

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

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    I know I am persona non grata per the guy who started this thread (because he mistakenly believes that I don't know what I am talking about) so I hope he will forgive me but apparently you don't know as much as you think you do about human physiology. In fact, apparently your knowledge is even more limited than the folks who wrote the FARs.

    No. They are just doing it with oxygen on board. It's legal to fly a homebuilt up until you hit RVSM territory. Theoretically, you could go higher if you are properly equipped or otherwise have permission.
     
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