# Sport Pilot

• ### No

• Total voters
96

#### Midniteoyl

##### Well-Known Member
Where at in MI? There's one in LaPorte, IN.

#### PTAirco

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe this situation is just a Michigan story, but if this is the way things are going with virtually no flight training in LSA's available, and entry level costs of 95k+ this concept is screwed.
I agree - if the whole LSA thing can survive about 5 years and we get some secondhand airplanes on the market, it may work, but it will take quite a while for something to depreciate about 75%. On the other hand, we have little data as to how well these new LSA's survive in the field, so it may go either way.

Just about every LSA school I have been in contact with uses airplanes on a leaseback basis - nobody can afford to get one of these things outright. Just browse barnstormers.com and see what kind of regular airplane $100,000 buys you - it's mindboggling. Loaded Bonanzas, twins, even Cirrus, you name it. And the price of new LSAs is not going down, it's actually increasing. Since its inception, prices for those that are still in production have gone up about 25% in the last few years - I just looked through a Kitplanes directory from a 2005. So far the ONLY thing this category has going for it is the lack of a medical; it has not made flying any more affordable. So you can get a license for about 3,000 less; if you can find the training in your area. But then you are severely limited in your choice of airplane, if saving$3000 is a significant amount to you, you're not likely to go out and buy a new LSA for $100,000. Or perhaps you can find a Champ or an Ercoupe for about 30,000 (people aren't dumb and have realized the potential value of the LSA-eligible standard category and prices are going up.) but you can also find far more capable airplanes like 150s, Stinsons and even 172 for less than that. I have seen perfectly flyable 150's with lots of engine hours for way under 20,000 - what is the point of saving 3,000 on training when you have to spend at least 5,000 more to get any kind of airplane to fly? Last edited: #### KeithO ##### Well-Known Member So that is a 3 hour drive from Jackson,MI. Where at in MI? There's one in LaPorte, IN. #### mstull ##### R.I.P. Kieth, Here's a list of sport pilot instructors in your area. Some may have private strips, and much less expensive planes you can train in. I see a Challenger II in your area: Sport Pilot Instructors #### bob.shea ##### Well-Known Member I can't figure out why a LSA has to be so light. Why not make every single engine two place plane a LSA rated plane. What difference can a few lbs. make. If the powers to be really want to make flying more accessable to the general public then we need more planes that average people can afford to own, or better yet more flight schools can afford to own and operate and rent. But I really think they need to address the pilots who lost there ratings because of medical reasons who under the LSA rule could be flying. there is a world of experience that could be used instead of being discarded. #### Dana ##### Super Moderator Staff member Well, one could argue that they had to draw the line somewhere. You wouldn't want, for example, to include a P-51 Mustang, or lots of other hot singles. The 1320# limit is 600 kg. I was under the impression that the limit had been chosen to correspond with European regulations, but I looked it up and the numbers there seem to be 450 or 750kg depeding on the class of aircraft. So I don't know. Perhaps they wanted, for some obscure reason, to draw the line in a place that included most of the classic taildraggers but exclude the newer spam cans like the Cessna 150. -Dana Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them? #### Dana ##### Super Moderator Staff member Or this... -Dana Please return stewardess to original upright position. #### bmcj ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter So you can get a license for about 3,000 less Best bet is to get the LS license, but do the trainig in an old certified plane like an Aeronca Champ with a regular CFI. That way, almost everything you do can be used toward a regular license later. (assuming I understand the LS rules correctly) #### Midniteoyl ##### Well-Known Member Or this... -Dana Please return stewardess to original upright position. Little more than a 2 seater me thinks.. #### Dana ##### Super Moderator Staff member Well, the cargo configuration is probably only two seats... :gig: -Dana T.V. - Why do you think they call it programming? #### litespeed ##### Well-Known Member You guys really get the rough end of the pineapple with you USA regs. Here in Oz we are selfregulated as recreational pilots and are moving now to a 760kg limit with 45knts landing config stall. No max power loading, no max speed but still only two seats. So if you can get to those figures for your craft it can do anything else as long as its below 10,000 ft. Most of OZ is real flat so that is no problem. #### litespeed ##### Well-Known Member The 760kg limit will allow a lot of small VH registered aircraft to become recreational. It also allows a much greater design envelope. Many Recreational pilots here do lots of touring over long distances or are used on huge farms where a fence check could be many days drive. Many of our eligible planes have big range, strong and suitable to train in. At the other end of the spectrum we also have hotships like KR2, Sonerai, etc These are much faster than your regs allow. We could even have say a RV3. Our regs keep the Government out and the fun in and will satisfy almost all needs unless you need NVFR of IFR. As far as training goes- most small/regional airports have a rec aircraft for hire or training. Many of the Australian designs are factory built for training, and kitted, this has meant a lot of training approved aircraft are available for hire, 2nd hand or new. The pilot numbers are big for the size of our population at approx, 10,000 licensed rec. pilots. Our accident rate is low and safety is comparable to Certified aircraft. The cheapest new training aircraft for a traditional craft would be a Jabiru 120 factory built was IIRC$56k Aus or a approx $50k us. You don't have to pay a bomb for new training aircraft unless you want to. #### Turd Ferguson ##### Well-Known Member Living in Southern MI, There is a local company who assembles Italian LSA's on the airport, but has not offered a single one of their 2 seaters to the flight school for flight training. Necro post time: Whatever happened to the LSA product line that was being produced in Jackson, MI? The owner of the company got brain cancer and died. The company apparently didn't have adequate structure to continue once the key man was gone, Gradually the website disappeared, doors closed, not sure if the tooling was auctioned or what happened to that particular product line. #### TahoeTim ##### Well-Known Member I think the PBOR will pass soon and then watch LSA's drop in price. I sold mine a few months ago and bought an Ercoupe for$18k to keep flying and I bought a kitfox kit to build. I will be able to raise the rating of my kitfox to 1550 lb as soon as the PBOR passes.

Let's face it, the only difference between LSA and private is 20 hours of training. That won't mean squat if a newbie hops into a Pitts. It's a stupid rule that needs to go away. I was against PBOR and also advocated simply raising the weight limit of LSA over time until/if accidents increased. We should already be at 2000 lbs and 60 stall.