small craft for oversize pilots like me ;-)

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by erkki67, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. Jan 22, 2020 #1

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    I've always liked the smaller planes, the Ranger, Airbike, CriCri and so on.

    But to lift my weight, I need wing surface, as much as I can get from an existing wingspan.

    One of the first Zenair's was using a wing made of the more or less rigid D-Cell LE structure, while the aft was made of sailcloth.

    How to make a wrapping control system for Roll and Pitch , with ta D-Cell leading edge.

    The sail could have battens to stabilize the airfoil.

    Would a control system that acts on the camber of the sail be effective to control a 3-axis airplane?
     
  2. Jan 22, 2020 #2

    Martin R.

    Martin R.

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    Difficult but very interesting question!

    On the Zipper https://zenair40.weebly.com/uploads/8/1/4/3/8143775/header_images/1380388298.jpg
    [​IMG]
    Chris Heintz http://www.zenithair.com/c-heintz.html
    used "normal" ailerons attached on the Princeton-sailwing
    https://zenair40.weebly.com/zipper-i.html

    Here you will find more information about Princeton-sailwings:
    https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/275307.pdf
    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690009905.pdf
    http://journals.sfu.ca/ts/index.php/ts/article/view/818/775 (download the pdf)
     
  3. Jan 22, 2020 #3

    lr27

    lr27

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    If you weigh a lot, you need more span, too, unless you want to use even more power.

    I've seen some designs marketed as two places that wouldn't accommodate two normal sized people.
     
  4. Jan 22, 2020 #4

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    Yes the Zipper, that was the bird.

    Could the controls , at least for the roll been carried out by pulling/pushing the trailing edge at the fuselage ?
     
  5. Jan 22, 2020 #5

    Tiger Tim

    Tiger Tim

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    As a fellow big guy, I think we just need big planes.
     
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  6. Jan 22, 2020 #6

    Pops

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    Not easy designing a small airplane for a big guy. I have 2 grandsons that are 6' 4", 6' 5" and 250, 260 lbs. Its really a handicap when most of everything is built for little people. Biggest person I could find to try setting in the JMR was 6' 5" x 280 lbs.
     
  7. Jan 22, 2020 #7

    Sockmonkey

    Sockmonkey

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    Most depressing thread ever.
    Maybe all the pilot's clubs could get group discounts on gym memberships?
     
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  8. Jan 22, 2020 #8

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    The Skycraft Scout comes in mind too, but would require some mods for the controls.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2020 #9

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    EF289AC7-4F78-458C-9611-52278B115C51.png CEAA6B52-50A3-4B69-AF3D-1065C50574FF.jpeg

    A stock VP-2 flown solo from the center of the seat has unlimited headroom and enough cockpit width and payload capacity for even a 300 lb pilot. Legroom is not huge but a single set of rudder pedals could be installed further forward to gain a few inches compared to dual pedals.
     
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  10. Jan 22, 2020 #10

    Hephaestus

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    Or perhaps people need to realize that the standard FAA pilot was based on unrealistic numbers influenced heavily by living during the great depression?

    I'm on my 2nd year of a very rigid very controlled diet and cardio program. And I do follow it. I'm heavier now than when I started. And even my doctor now admits that I'll never get to that insane BMI target.
     
  11. Jan 22, 2020 #11

    pictsidhe

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    I didn't know that gyms have ways to reduce height and frame?
     
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  12. Jan 22, 2020 #12

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    But it's rather on the heavy side,

    only Fritz has the magic stick to reduce the weight on a VP.

    And my favorite is a highwing 2 seater.
     
  13. Jan 22, 2020 #13

    cluttonfred

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    Outdated FAA definitions have little to do with matching the aircraft to the mission. If looking for a big and tall single-seater then simply find a light two-seater that will work and go for it. Tandem two-seaters flown solo from the rear like a J-3 Cub also come to mind, such as a Fisher Horizon 1 or 2 or even a Pietenpol. If the heavy pilot moves the CG too far back then you just use a heavier engine and prop.

    48AF95BE-0ABE-45A0-BDBD-824E14F7E336.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  14. Jan 22, 2020 #14

    Aerowerx

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    I was at a little fly-in type airshow several decades ago.

    There was a J3 parked there that I was looking at, and noticed something strange. It had only 1 seat, and was about in the middle between where the two normal seats would be. Somewhat puzzling.

    Then a while later I saw why. I watched the owner get into the thing. He was maybe 5ft9 and easily weighed 300 pounds. I surprised he even fit.

    I don't know about the headroom, but there are ways to fly if you are "large economy size".
     
  15. Jan 22, 2020 #15

    BJC

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    I toyed with the idea of a single seat RV-4, with the seat moved aft about 2 inches and the seat back reclined. It would have been a fastback, with an IO-360 up front.


    BJC
     
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  16. Jan 22, 2020 #16

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Erkki, I HAVE your answer. The Flying K Skyraider Mark 2 and the Rocky Mountain Wings "Ridge Runner" Model 2.

    These are very similar aircraft, from companies owned by two brothers. The "Model 2" version of these aircraft are large enough for a large and heavy pilot.

    Both of them are essentially derivatives of the Avid Flyer... BUT... they were not "side by side" aircraft. The original versions were supposedly able to meet the Part 103 Ultralight rules.

    But soon afterward, they both introduced a "two seat capable" version. It was absolutely ridiculous to put two people in one of these, but they were also physically large enough for one large person, and the structure was increased to handle the extra weight.

    My Ridge Runner 2 has a gross weight of 900 pounds, and the empty weight will be somewhere around 350 pounds.

    The wings fold rearward like the Avid/Kitfox. A 45-60HP engine is used. The aircraft has excellent STOL and "bush plane" capability.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
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  17. Jan 23, 2020 #17

    lr27

    lr27

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    I was going to mention the Skyraider if I remembered the name. Have seen one in person. It looks cramped, at least for two, but I didn't ask if I could try it on.
     
  18. Jan 23, 2020 #18

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    The original SkyRaider ad Ridge Runner 1 was indeed smaller than the Model 2 in the photo I posted. And the Model 2 is smaller than the Model 3 and 4.

    I would be surprised if Erkki would not fit in the Model 2, simply without installing the "passenger" safety harness. There is enough room for him to use a slightly more angled seat back, allowing him to lean back a little further. The width is exactly 24 inches, from top to bottom.

    The aircraft also has just about everything he has said he wants, form good STOL performance to folding wings to fit in a shipping container. It also has real flaps and ailerons, three different landing geear configurations, and a properly engineered truss fuselage crash structure.
     
  19. Jan 23, 2020 #19

    lr27

    lr27

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    Is it available, though?
     
  20. Jan 23, 2020 #20

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    No, must buy a used one.
     

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