Raptor Composite Aircraft

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by Dexacare, Mar 28, 2016.

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  1. Jun 28, 2019 #861

    bmcj

    bmcj

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    That (and arrogance) is the same thing that killed John Chotia when he was showing off his new design for the press, despite being told by me and several others just minutes earlier that he had some serious safety of flight issues with his design.
     
  2. Jun 28, 2019 #862

    Tiger Tim

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    My wife is a sucker for the similar “I want it to be like this really badly, so it must be the case” and it makes me wonder if that’s just a quirk of human nature or it’s a cultural behaviour. Whatever it is, it’s a popular outlook.
     
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  3. Jun 28, 2019 #863

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

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    Cherokee County, I believe.
     
  4. Jun 28, 2019 #864

    pictsidhe

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    Maybe this is what separates the great engineers from the rest of us?
     
  5. Jun 28, 2019 #865

    pictsidhe

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    Isn't there an unwritten rule about not having an audience for initial test flights? No family, friends, reporters or live streaming to 100,000 youtube fans?
     
  6. Jun 28, 2019 #866

    Marc Zeitlin

    Marc Zeitlin

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    Twins, separated at birth. Not distant at all...
     
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  7. Jun 28, 2019 #867

    Hot Wings

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    Didn't George's cousin serve as a doctor during the Korean war? The Burdell and Tuttle family tree have similar structures.
     
  8. Jun 28, 2019 #868

    BJC

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    Is the cause of that crash known?
    The Innovator first flew almost 4 years ago. Were there on-going problems? What changes were made immediately before the crash?
    I spoke with him several times at Oshkosh. Very nice guy. A sad loss.


    BJC
     
  9. Jun 29, 2019 #869

    Hephaestus

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    But he's just going to lift the nose wheel.

    Sorry I had to
     
  10. Jun 29, 2019 #870

    BBerson

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    How long is the runway?
     
  11. Jun 29, 2019 #871

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    Back to Raptor, I saw this in the YT comments from 2 days ago on the 2nd last video:

    "Peter, (I) could have built 3 planes by now..just give up and return the deposits to everyone. Elevators, wings..car engine..it's not a safe plane per the best test pilot" (I corrected some spelling here and this guy has a 580 powered Velocity XL)




    Peter's response- "But then I won't have the satisfaction of trying to prove you wrong."

    And a further response to the first post by another delusional fan boy: "You’re praying that diesel won’t work. Because if it does, Velocity shuts its doors for good. Time will tell. A lot of us rooting for Peter. As for “best test pilot”? In my experience there are 2 kinds of pilots, those that tell you how good they are and those that really are."

    Take what you will from this.

    In the video, Peter describes how he's having trouble with the door locks engaging now as the composite relaxed and changed shape. Wait until those get pressurization loads and cycles on them. I think a test pilot will want to make sure those doors open easily...
     
  12. Jun 29, 2019 #872

    lvaero

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    All good!
     
  13. Jun 29, 2019 #873

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

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    BJC[/QUOTE]

    The first iteration Innovator wouldn't rotate to take off. It spent all one summer running up and down the runway at VPC trying to rotate. They smoked the engine and the brakes over many weeks just trying to get it to rotate, much less fly. They finally changed the angle of the horizontal stabilizer and the airplane rotated and apparently flew OK. VPC is my home field. I watched quite a few of the attempted flights.

    Then, they largely threw that design away (not the 3 surface planform, but everything else) in the trashcan and developed a substantially new airplane. That airplane went for a very short initial test flight which the test pilot didn't like at all. Instability and poor climb rate were cited by my friends who are based at CZL. The Innovator crew made changes prior to the fatal flight, including adding substantial turned down tips on the canard. I have a picture of it going out for a fast taxi about an hour before the crash. Looking at the picture, you can certainly see the added vertical surface, and the eyeball test tells you that it was a recipe for yaw instability.

    Apparently the aircraft still wouldn't climb on the fateful flight and remained unstable (maybe more than before). Richard cleared the trees at the N end of the field, climbed a little, did a left 180 and crashed about a quarter mile west of the runway, which is oriented N/S.

    I'd boil it down to an aircraft with very poor flying characteristics being flown by a pilot who wasn't experienced or current and who was operating under a lot of pressure.
     
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  14. Jun 29, 2019 #874

    pictsidhe

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    The Raptor will soar like a bullpoop powered eagle!

    All the pro-Raptor arguments are based on bullpoop, not physics or engineering as far as I've been able to ascertain. Because of that, those who believe in physics think it is doomed to failure. Those who believe in the power of bullpoop think it will be like, totally rad, man!

    I would like to apologise for my decades out of date 'cool talk'. I'm a cynical old fart, not a hipster. Oh, hipsters are out of date too...

    Sadly, the guy who should be sticking to sales, sweeping the floor and making tea for the two guys actually building it, is its designer...

    If anyone has actually seen any Raptor-math, I'd be interested in picking it apart.
     
  15. Jun 29, 2019 #875

    BJC

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    Thanks for that synopsis, Kyle.


    BJC
     
  16. Jun 29, 2019 #876

    flyboy2160

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    In a couple of the latest videos, IT Peter The Great mentions doing things so 'Mark' could analyze the results. Is this some one who is also doing analysis on the plane? I couldn't find mention of any one besides Peter on the website or in the few videos I've seen. Do you guys know who this is? I can't imagine it's the very knowledgeable Marc Z who's here.....
     
  17. Jun 29, 2019 #877

    rv6ejguy

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    Seems like this is Mark Bettosini who is a well known aircraft designer and worked on many high profile designs. Marc Z brought this to light a while back.

    As we've heard before, Peter has a history of not taking good advice from the knowledgeable folks he hires though. I do hope Mark is aware and has told Peter that the PSRU design isn't a good one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  18. Jun 29, 2019 #878

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    BobK will almost certainly roll his eyes to the point of a migraine when reading this comment above, and his thoughts will immediately drift over (like mine have) to a guy named Tor Jensen, who wanted to build a world class kit sailplane called the American Spirit. Same story... a designer and/or manufacturer who would not listen to a lot of educated/experienced folks who were giving him solid advice, then the Jerry Springer-esque road to angry customers, un-delivered kits, un-finished projects, lawsuits, yada yada yada... bankrupt.

    "Those who do not know history.... are condemned to repeat it!"
    Salvatore Occhipinti
    (my high school history teacher, putting a double entendre onto a famous historical quote, upon presenting us with our final exams, circa 1977)
     
  19. Jun 29, 2019 #879

    Mark Z

    Mark Z

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    Let’s certainly not confuse me as offering anyone any advice on Peters project. All I can fulfill is rectifying empty coffee cups one week out of the year. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Jun 29, 2019 #880

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    Marc Zeitlin deserves the credit.
     

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