RAGWITH HEATH REPLICA

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tlcasey100

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I AM TIMOTHY CASEY OF HOMINY, OKLAHOMA AND JUST STARTED A RAGWING HEATH REPLICA. ANY ADVISE WOULD BE APPRECIATED JUST BECAUSE I AM NEW TO BUILDING AND THIS IS MY FIRST! I ALSO HAVE A HISTORY PAGE IN FACEBOOK CALLED History Of Casey's Airplane.
 

cdlwingnut

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The Heath looks cool, I have those plans too. Take pictures and put a log up on the members projects part of the forum.
Have fun with it

What are you using for wood by the way
 

don january

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Welcome back Tim. to answer a question of yours it appears you have made the first true step of building a aircraft and that is picking the plane you want to build. The fellas are right a member project log is a good start such as Pops and mine and cdlwingnut and the many others you can follow and get tips from. Also the search feature on HBA has many threads that will cover a lot of questions for you. After studying the prints until you now every page by heart you must look around and see how you are set for table/tools/material. I personally don't view Facebook so a clearer area of where your at in the build would help in getting some input here on HBA. If your building from scratch and not a kit stock piling material is a good start or you can go one area at a time but I have found if you have the material on hand there is less risk in abandoning the build. I noticed you joined HBA in 2011 so that's why the welcome back. Happy building Don
 

tlcasey100

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I WRITE IN CAPITALS BECAUSE IM LAZY FIRST OF ALL. FOR WOOD I LOOKED AT CITKA SPRUCE WHICH DOESNT EXIST IN OKLAHOMA AND THE SHIPPING IS 200 TO 300 BUCKS DEPENDING WHERE YOU ORDER FROM. I CONSULTED ROGER MANN OF RAGWING AND HE STATED HE HAS BUILT A NUMBER OF AIRCRAFT PURELY OF NORTHERN WHITE PINE SO I SCANNED THE LUMBER YARDS IN TULSA AND SHALLERS ORDERED 24 BOARD FEET TO COME IN MONDAY. I HAVE A FACEBOOK PAGE CALLED HISTORY OF CASEY'S AIRPLANE WHICH ONLY SHOWS MY WING RIB JIG AND A DUMMY MADE OF YELLOW PINE.
 

Dana

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Welcome, Timothy. Please understand that writing in all capitals online is considered SHOUTING and is hard to read.
 

don january

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Tim. Keep in mind it is "NOT" Roger Mann who you must satisfy to get your plane signed off for AWC. White pine Spars?? Just food for thought.
 

TFF

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Just any old white pine can not be used if you are doing your due diligence. It needs to be graded to airplane standards. When that is taken into consideration, the wood you buy starts getting expensive because most of what you buy probably does not pass airplane standard. Sitka spruce bought from airplane places passes. White pine to that standard costs the same as the Sitka. You can use any wood you want, but airplane wood is pretty special.
 

Tiger Tim

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Just any old white pine can not be used if you are doing your due diligence. It needs to be graded to airplane standards. When that is taken into consideration, the wood you buy starts getting expensive because most of what you buy probably does not pass airplane standard... White pine to that standard costs the same as the Sitka.
IIRC Roger Mann used a lot of white pine in most of his own planes and advocated grading it yourself at the lumberyard. Only buy the wood that meets the standard, the yard can keep the rest.
 

TFF

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Sure you can from the lumber yard. I find that maybe 1 in a 1000 boards is airplane quality. That one escaped the picker to be sent to one of the higher quality suppliers.

I do know someone, his plane was in Sport Aviation, that used box store wood. Cancer killed him not the plane. Craftsmanship is great but I would not get in it, and I noticed he really did not give rides in it. It might have been two place sized but for whatever reason, to limit his liability, it was a one person plane. He had other planes no that was no big deal.

Why do you use high quality wood? To hedge your bet. You can use knot infested wood, but every knot reduces the cross section by that much and grain that is not straight means if it does split, it can break the short way not down the long way. If you showed me some wood that was close to airplane wood, I would probably not have a problem with it. Straight grain and slightly fewer ring count, I would go for it, but it’s not anything I have ever seen. Airplane wood is better than Select Prime Grade. I have seen some Douglas Fir flooring that would be close, but shipping is the same as from Aircraft spruce so in the end saving $300 on something that is going to take you five years to build is not much of a savings. If you think one can build a wood plane for $300, they are thinking it’s still 1959. Those days are gone. That quality is gone. Find some no knot and truly straight grain wood with 1/3 less ring count and you have a really nice piece of wood in anybody’s book.
 

cdlwingnut

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in the build manual Roger Mann has part of the FAA AC that tells how to grade your wood. That is a good start but there is more info out there. I used Douglas Fir for my longerons and spars, also used for several other parts, the smaller parts i ordered spruce from ACS as one it was easier to let them cut the wood to size and two the shipping on the smaller peices isn't that bad.
Also make sure to get the right plywood. a local lumber yard might be able to get you the 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch baltic birch it will come in 5'x5' squares. the 1.5mm you will have to go to wicks or ACS.

White pine will work for you for most of your plane but i would recommend that you find some good douglas fir flooring or order spruce for your spars at least.
 

BJC

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Each builder accepts the risk that he is comfortable with. Nothing wrong with that. What is dangerous, though, is ignorance. If the advice offered here on HBA makes sense to me, I follow it.


BJC
 

poormansairforce

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All my wood came from a local lumber yard that was known by boat builders to have better wood. Douglas Fir for the important items, white pine for everything else. Ordered in ply as needed.
 

Jerry Lytle

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"Welcome, Timothy. Please understand that writing in all capitals online is considered SHOUTING and is hard to read."

"DUE THE COST OF SPRUCE I TOOK THE RECOMMENDATION OF ROGER MANN AND AM USING NORTHERN WHITE PINE!"

Houston, what we have here is a failure to communicate!
 

Victor Bravo

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The #1 wood aircraft structures expert in the country has started to use laminated wood for spars, because he can find more good wood with less waste this way. He can rip "layers" of high quality aircraft wood out of a larger board that has flaws in it.

The remaining wood from thelarge board, on either side of the flaw, knot, split, etc, is also sawn into blocks or shorter laminations for other structure... uprights, diagonals, short doublers, etc.

He has determined that the resulting laminated spar plank has better and more desirable qualities than a solid piece.

So for the cost of a little more fabrication tiime it is very possible to build an aircraft quality spar at less financial cost and with less wasted wood.
 

Dana

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The #1 wood aircraft structures expert in the country has started to use laminated wood for spars, because he can find more good wood with less waste this way. He can rip "layers" of high quality aircraft wood out of a larger board that has flaws...
Given the shortage of old growth spruce, I suspect laminated spars are the future of wood aircraft construction and repair. I wonder how long it will be before ACS and the others start offering laminated spar blanks in the most common sizes?
 

BJC

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cdlwingnut

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The spars in the RagWing Heath and Ultra-Piet are box type spars of 3/4 x 3/4 sticks at the top and bottom with 1.5mm ply web. and some bracing kind of like a ladder. so finding douglas fir flooring or even ordering from spruce isn't too hard since we don't need a 12 foot long by 6 inch wide perfect board.

the mini-max kits use white pine and i have the rudder kit and ordered the trailing edge for my wings from Cooper that wood is great but not perfect either. I don't know what Team uses for the spars though

pietenpols have been build out of white pine. spruce, hemlock, douglas fir, and poplar.

He should be fine with white pine for most of his airplane as long as he is careful selecting his wood. (i hand picked my boards from the lumber yard and not a big box store either.)

you will pick though a lot of wood though and still use a lot as scrap. but that is ok because you will need jig blocks anyway
 
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