O-100-- interesting new engine

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Victor Bravo

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No offense taken, and yes a new website is in the works. Pete is in over his head with work and making engines, and every extra dollar he makes from the wood wing side goes right into paying for engine parts. That quarter million dollar figure I tossed out was not imaginary.

HOWEVER, the one bright side is that the majority of people who are interested in the O-100 at this stage of the game are people who remember telephone books, and won't completely lose interest in something if it's not always trending on Instagram (there used to be a guy that was known as insta-gram when I was in high school, but that's a different story... he's probably "trending" in San Quentin these days)

Pete did mention that he has a new website being built, but being an old-school guy he's doing something that's un-thinkable today - building the actual product before building the sales/marketing machine.
 

ScaleBirdsScott

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Well he's not actively doing business at the moment, right? Still in development. I don't see a lot of harm in having no official updated site or news until there's actually a product ready for open orders. He certainly won't have trouble moving the units he initially makes based on direct word of mouth. Once there is something to advertise at least a basic website being up-to-date with a sales page would be paramount.

I mean, sure, there would be a few extra units moved early on if he had a nice website with regular news going and a large following built, but then it becomes a second job, and even wrangling a web manager or college kid takes a certain level of distraction from the task at hand to tell them all the stuff that needs to be in there for content. Then when things are wrong, having them fix it. Then when there's news the intern or remote working web wrangler isn't going to be the one writing those updates.

Develop first. Get the product ready. Get the early units out the door. Then spend a few days and work with someone to come up with web content. Or, find someone who knows enough about the project and the industry and community to do a good job of being content and media creator.
 

Pops

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Would be nice to have someone else to take care of the website for him and post update videos of all the work and problems. Right VB ?
With 2 full time jobs , I wonder if Pete is getting 5 hrs of sleep a night.

Would be a great engine for another SSSC. I started another SSSC a few years ago for my oldest son. He realized with his job he would never have time to finish it and sold it to a local man. He is in his mid-80's and realized he would never finish it. Yesterday I went and looked at the project and thinking of buying it back. Fuselage about 80% finished, tails finished, ribs and spars finish and ready to assemble. Need to build the steel tube LG and engine mount. Yep, great engine for the SSSC.
Dan
 
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Victor Bravo

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Yes, just to ensure that this is made clear to anyone coming in to the discussion late... the engine has been run and proven out extensively on a ground test stand, then it was flown several hours in a test aircraft. The results of that testing, on the ground and in the air, resulted in the final changes to the configuration, parts design, etc. that is now nearing production status.
 

Victor Bravo

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Would be a great engine for another SSSC.
While I don't have anywhere near Pops' brains, experience or skill... I'm guessing that a new version of the SSSC built around the O-100 could have a few details even a little further optimized. It's a little lighter than the VW, even one of Pops' skinny anorexic supermodel VW's 😲. It can swing a little bigger of a club at a lower RPM. Maybe a teaspoon or two less fuel every hour.

So maybe the airplane can be built a little more compact, the nose and tail a little shorter, a little taller gear and higher deck angle because of the bigger prop, or a narrower Cub style cowling to utilize a little more prop disk thrust on takeoff, etc...... to yield some additional capabilities?

SSSC-CW (clip wing) with the 23 series airfoil and big ailerons to a couple of point rolls? (There will be a capability in the engine for a dry-sump oil system, so it's not that much further to go for a mild acro system)
 

Toobuilder

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Might be saying, if you need a website, your not my customer. He knows every engine will be sold. We know every one produced will. He is definitely not a shiny pamphlet flailing fake.

The average consumer just wants to be a consumer. I think he is only interested in helping out someone who needs his engine. He is going to sell to friends. Buying the engine gets you on the friend list. 10, 100, 200. The only way he makes more than that is if someone buys the design. The only way to sell it all, lock stock and barrel, is to do as he is doing, making it right.
I'm not intending to turn this thread into a debate about marketing, but I will say that the days of any customer not needing a website for even the most simple of product are quickly coming to an end. And we cant complain that someone on the internet can "ruin" your business (post 1087), and then pretend keeping a website up to date isn't important for "my type" of customer. Information on the internet is either important or not - Can't have it both ways.

Anyway, enough about marketing... That's Topaz's area.
 

Pops

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While I don't have anywhere near Pops' brains, experience or skill... I'm guessing that a new version of the SSSC built around the O-100 could have a few details even a little further optimized. It's a little lighter than the VW, even one of Pops' skinny anorexic supermodel VW's 😲. It can swing a little bigger of a club at a lower RPM. Maybe a teaspoon or two less fuel every hour.

So maybe the airplane can be built a little more compact, the nose and tail a little shorter, a little taller gear and higher deck angle because of the bigger prop, or a narrower Cub style cowling to utilize a little more prop disk thrust on takeoff, etc...... to yield some additional capabilities?

SSSC-CW (clip wing) with the 23 series airfoil and big ailerons to a couple of point rolls? (There will be a capability in the engine for a dry-sump oil system, so it's not that much further to go for a mild acro system)

Since Pete's engine is lighter than my 141 lbs firewall forward weight for the 60 HP, 1835 engine, I'll be able to get the EW lower than the 485 lbs with the 800 X 6" wheels and tires, 2-- 8 gal wing fuel tanks, electric elevator trim tab, etc. Shouldn't be any problems to make 450 lbs EW or less. Keep the 120 sq' of wing area.
With Pete's engine swinging a larger dia prop than my 60" dia prop the performance should be close to the same except the added benefit of the lighter EW.
Yes, a taller main gear and same cowling as used in the SSSC.
 

addicted2climbing

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We are fortunate to have good access to a laser cutter (thanks, Addicted2Climbing),
VB,

Tell Pete to contact me and I can draw up the gasket pretty quick. I am pushing hard to get all my film equipment done and ready to ship by 09/04 so could possibly design it prior to then and have Pete visit after 09/04 with the case and cut them and test fit and modify on the fly if needed. Will be starting a new design immediately after so best he catches me while I have a few weeks between projects.

Marc
 

Pops

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I sleep like a baby and wake up in a new world every morning, just like a baby. :)

Most of my life , I had a regulator job and then some kind of business as a second job. Would go many years and never get any more that 4 to 5 hrs of sleep a night. I also wish Pete all the best and may his engine be a huge success beyond his dreams.
 
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dragon2knight

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Well he's not actively doing business at the moment, right? Still in development. I don't see a lot of harm in having no official updated site or news until there's actually a product ready for open orders. He certainly won't have trouble moving the units he initially makes based on direct word of mouth. Once there is something to advertise at least a basic website being up-to-date with a sales page would be paramount.

I mean, sure, there would be a few extra units moved early on if he had a nice website with regular news going and a large following built, but then it becomes a second job, and even wrangling a web manager or college kid takes a certain level of distraction from the task at hand to tell them all the stuff that needs to be in there for content. Then when things are wrong, having them fix it. Then when there's news the intern or remote working web wrangler isn't going to be the one writing those updates.

Develop first. Get the product ready. Get the early units out the door. Then spend a few days and work with someone to come up with web content. Or, find someone who knows enough about the project and the industry and community to do a good job of being content and media creator.
Don't put the cart before the horse....we have patience, the fact this threads been going for years and the interest is still plenty high prove that. I'm sure it will all work out in the end!
 

KWK

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I'm late to this party. I admire this fellow's efforts, no doubt inspired by the old Franklin 2A series engines, but...

An opposed two will never be as smooth as an opposed 4, and this new engine will be competing against a fairly well established four cylinder O-112, namely the 1835 VW conversion. The VW is going to be hard (impossible) to beat on price, and it's reasonably rated at the same hp. The O-100 should have a leg up on reliability and perhaps weight, but will it be enough so to justify the price?

Regardless, I do hope he finds his market.
 

Victor Bravo

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Pete was inspired by the people cutting VW engines in half, not by the big thrashing Franklin. The idea started with cutting a Cessna 150 engine in half, but it very quickly evolved away from that concept. The O-100 has more than one counterweight on the crankshaft, and it has approximately the same amount of vibration as the 4 cylinder Continentals. The 2 cylinder thrashing was the first thing he wanted to get away from, and he was successful. You will have to ask some of the many people who have seen this engine run in person to verify that, and feel free to do so.
 

KWK

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True, a well designed opposed 2 can be smoother than a poorly executed 4, but an equally well done 4 wins handily, and the modern O-112 have decent crankshafts.

I suspect Mr Plumb's secret is not an extra counterweight but the newly designed pistons and rods, which likely allowed him to reduce reciprocating mass and so the horizontal rocking couple the counterweights try to compensate.

Using the Continental cylinders/heads is a big plus. These are well proven, and unlike the O-112, dual plugs are in there by design. Upping the CR to 9 is okay if the heads can run with unleaded gas.

It sounds as if he's done everything right, but he's aiming at the end of the market where cost is often a significant factor. I wish him only the best. The air cooled airplane engine has room to improve, and he's trying to do so.
 
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Victor Bravo

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Yes, I believe he made significant advances by using higher strength Carrillo rods and probably lighter pistons. But although I'm no engine expert, I laid hands on the new crankshaft, and I can verify there is indeed a good size counterweight built in.

The O-100 is also a good bit lighter than the VW based engines. I'm not knocking the VW at all, there are many thousands of airplanes flying around on VW derivatives. BUT, the ability to swing a larger propeller without a redrive is pretty important for a lot of airplanes in the category we're talking about. IIRC, I believe that is a function of having a longer stroke on the crank, which is a big advantage of the Continental DNA over the VW DNA.
 

BBerson

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A two cylinder can be lighter than four of equal displacement. But cannot be as smooth with half the torque pulses and twice as strong. Torque pulse cannot be eliminated with balance weights.
 
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