Looking for Brake System

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by Atomic_Sheep, Dec 4, 2017.

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  1. Dec 4, 2017 #1

    Atomic_Sheep

    Atomic_Sheep

    Atomic_Sheep

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    Hi Guys,

    I'm looking for suggestions for a brake system for a CA-65 Cvjetkovic. It uses 5.00-5 wheels and tyres.

    Something like this:
    Landing Gear.jpg
     
  2. Dec 4, 2017 #2

    wsimpso1

    wsimpso1

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    Cleveland, Grove, Matco, Beringer make full systems, brakes and wheels and master cylinders.

    Cleveland is standard, Grove is basically interchangeable but somewhat lower cost, and they are both used by a LOT of us. Matco seems to have a little less of a following. These guys are all inch dimension parts and threads.

    Beringer is the high priced brand, from France, and all of the parts are metric, with metric threads, and is becoming more standard.

    There are others. Hit Aircraft Spruce and Wicks' websites, then the companies' websites.

    Have fun.

    Billski
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  3. Dec 4, 2017 #3

    TFF

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    Most RVs are 5.00-5. Should be easy to find new and used.
     
  4. Dec 4, 2017 #4

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    I just walked in to my shop and I happen to have my wheels and brakes axles on my bench because I'm working on mounting the gear on the Cassutt. I took a couple photos for you.

    My gear is Grove and I was so happy with Robbie and the company service I just figured I'd buy Grove wheels and brakes. I didn't. I bought Matco.
    IMG_20171204_095309644.jpg

    IMG_20171204_095333472.jpg

    IMG_20171204_095401317.jpg

    I was at Airventure this year and happened to walk by the Matco booth. I talked with an engineer they had and really enjoyed the conversation and education. I held them in my hands and really liked the product.

    They offered a show special and free shipping so I decided to bite. The price difference was substantial enough where I felt it was a great value. If I recall the weight between Matco and Grove are almost identical.

    Again, nothing against Grove, great company and great product. Money and I'm a bit impulsive when you get me around airplane stuff is why I made this decision.
     
    mcrae0104, Pops and BoKu like this.
  5. Dec 4, 2017 #5

    TFF

    TFF

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    The inside caliper is pretty trick.
     
  6. Dec 4, 2017 #6

    BoKu

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    We use Matco 5" wheels with internal calipers on the HP-24. It is a solid system with lots of capacity.

    There are some low-cost disk brake solutions out there that use Azusa 4" and 5" aluminum wheels. But all of the ones I looked closely at have a large installed width (with extra frontal area and moment arm on the gear leg), a maximum bearing size of 3/4" ID (and they're ball bearings, not high-capacity tapered roller bearings), and the disks themselves are relatively wimpy.

    One neat looking system is the Tracy O'Brien C90. However, the ~$100 cost of the brake linings is a bit off-putting:

    http://www.tracyobrien.com/Aircraft_Specialties-Brakes.html

    --Bob K.
     
  7. Dec 4, 2017 #7

    BoKu

    BoKu

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    [double-post redacted]
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  8. Dec 4, 2017 #8

    Dan Thomas

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    An old idea seen on ancient Goodyear brakes.

    s-l300.jpg

    I hope Matco has done a better job of engineering than Goodyear did. I see that they at least have the riveted lining instead of Goodyear's round puck that would wear thin and fall out of the shallow depression that held it, jamming the brakes solid right at a bad time, like rollout or takeoff. Getting at the brakes meant taking the wheel off the axle, and the disc was held in the wheel by six spring clips that cost, in 1995 when I last checked, $86 each. I had them on a Champ, and later on my Jodel, and got rid of them off the Jodel. The discs would rattle and had a tendency to warp into a cone shape if they got too hot.
     
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  9. Dec 4, 2017 #9

    12notes

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    Tracy O-Brien brakes were well recommended on the Hummel builder's list, and what I plan on using when I'm closer to being finished, but won't work if you're in a hurry.

    From Tracy O'Brien's home page:
    "We will be taking a Sabbatical leave from our business from November, 2017 through March, 2018. We will continue to have replacement brake pads and hydraulic seals available for sale during our sabbatical, as well as boat plans."
     
  10. Dec 4, 2017 #10

    Pops

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    On the SSSC, I used Azuse 6" wheel with tapered bearings on a 3/4" dia axle, (Choice of either ball bearing or tapered bearing). The brakes with Hydraulic brakes that Great Plains sells for the Azuse wheels. Perfect brakes for the aircraft.

    LS-- I need to order the wheels and brakes for the JMR but been putting it off because not sure what ones to order. What do you think about these ? I have 3/4" dia axles and the GW is 1050 lbs. If not these what ones do you recommend ?

    http://www.matcomfg.com/W51CC75-idv-3698-29.html
     
  11. Dec 5, 2017 #11

    Daleandee

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    I have O'Brien brakes on my Cleanex and they work well but can fade quickly when working them hard near full gross. My gross weight is set at 1250 lbs. The CVJETKOVIC CA-65 (from what I read) can have a gross weight up to 1500 lbs but some are at 1200 lbs (http://www.cvjetkovic-aircraft.net/) so depending on the gross weight the O'Briens may work for you. I think he reommends them for no more than 1200 gross.

    FWIW,

    Dale Williams
    N319WF @ 6J2
    Myunn - "daughter of Cleanex"
    120 HP - 3.0 Corvair
    Tail Wheel - Center Stick
    Signature Finish 2200 Paint Job
    165.2 hours / Status - Flying
    Member # 109 - Florida Sonex Association
     
  12. Dec 5, 2017 #12

    tspear

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    On the Velocity newsgroup (VOBA); people have been upgrading replacing Cleveland/Grove with Matco.
    The most common reason is Matco has more braking power in the same (or near same) package.

    Tim
     
  13. Dec 5, 2017 #13

    Rockiedog2

    Rockiedog2

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    There's been very little mention of the weight differences in the different brands. That's always one of the top considerations for me and was the reason I used the Black Max wheels and brakes. Light and cheap. 15# less than the Cleveland 500x5 set sittin on the shelf here. They also won't hold s**t. I bought the single puck and they were near useless so called the nice guy and he sent me a double puck set to try and they were fair so I'm running those. I don't recommend the Black Max. I got double puck Matcos on this 701 and they're fine and they've been abused. The light weight of the 701 and the high idle thrust of the 912S means the brakes are used constantly to keep the thing reined in and get heavy use for STOL...mine have 500 hours on the pads and still lots left. Riveted. That's probably what I would use after doing the homework comparisons. Clevelands stop good but are heavy and expensive. Certified stuff is usually that way.
     
  14. Dec 5, 2017 #14

    Pops

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    Like you, I want good brakes for short strips. Long strips in WV is as scarce as hen's teeth. Don't want any Clevelands. Guess I need to get on the phone and talk to Matco. They are in Salt Lake, Ut. Friend of mine lives in western Wy and his daughter lives close to the Matco business. The owner is also the company engineer. My friend uses Matco on his Bearhawk LSA and speaks highly of the owner and the brakes.
     
  15. Dec 5, 2017 #15

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    Pops, I have wheels and brakes off a Cessna if you think they'd work?
     
  16. Dec 5, 2017 #16

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    Kind big though
     
  17. Dec 5, 2017 #17

    Pops

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    No , I am using 3/4" dia axles. Thanks for asking.
    I just need to phone Matco and make sure I order the correct wheels and brakes.
     
  18. Dec 5, 2017 #18

    fmartin_gila

    fmartin_gila

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    Yep, at one time I owned an early Bonanza with those brakes and to put it bluntly, they were a pain in the a**.

    Fred
     
  19. Dec 6, 2017 #19

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    What's Kitfox or Rans using these days?
     
  20. Dec 6, 2017 #20

    Atomic_Sheep

    Atomic_Sheep

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    Thanks guys!
     

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