Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by nucleus, Mar 30, 2016.
I have heard that the Sea Max may be available again. Can anyone verify?
And it can carry two torpedoes, not just one.
Ron "Los!" Wanttaja
That is probably more true today, but I have a neighbor who placed a deposit down on the original run. At the time he was an active duty USAF test pilot (TPS Grad), and while making a comfortable living was far from "rich". The original value proposition of the Icon simply made sense to him. That said, he bailed out when the company started its shenanigans with price hikes and delivery slips.
I just submitted an inquiry from their website. I’ll post when I hear back.
I’d guess that is the case with the vast majority of the thousands of depositors.
The SeaBee that had the for sale sign at Oshkosh was only 120k and the restoration list was long. PBY, you bring your own party. You can camp in your airplane at the seaplane base at Oshkosh with 10 of your friends. Talked to a Grumman widgeon owner and if you are spending Icon money, it was the perfect airplane.
There’s plenty of amphib options and they are all a bargain when compared to Icon. A used Lake can be had in the $70,000 range. Widgeons are nice but more of a cabin cruiser with wings rather than a jet ski with wings. Apples to apples, Petryl is $200,000 if one desires composite and cute.
Looks like Vickers might be in no hurry to get to market either: http://vickersaircraft.com/whats-new/
I don't know if there really is or ever was much of an actual seaplane market anyway.
The upfront cost for molds is high. Seems like a mold-less kit would allow slow and steady company growth.
Neither is a "jet ski" with wings. You want a jet ski with wings, trailerable, and a moldless home built as well?
Ken Rand KR-3
The KR-3 is substantially lighter and faster than Icon.
I wonder why it didn't get to production? With some cosmetic adjustments it could simulate the Icon jet-ski styling.
Apparently not much interest in the cantilever wing seaplane, at least at that time.
Quote from Vickers website "Things like expanding too fast, coming to market before you are ready, over promising and under delivering. These are repeated throughout aviation and industry in general and are often seen in the light sport amphibian sector"
Wow, thanks for that, I never knew about the KR3.
- The claimed 630 lb empty weight is incredible. Literally.
- A turbocharged VW based engine in a pusher configuration? Sorry, but I think I can guess how the CHTs looked during takeoff and climb if they were running any boost at all.
Still, a neat little plane.
The point is, real companies come to Oshkosh with actual airplanes to sell on first trip (Vashon).
Fake companies come to Oshkosh to advertise for investors. Fake companies can go decades with no product to sell.
Vickers has no product. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Aircraft_Company
IMO, the big idea behind Icon was to create a market demand. They’ve spent a lot of cash to that end but it seems apparent they have grossly overestimated their ability to create a huge demand. Not sure why we think some other company should jump in and try to make a profit in this limited market.
They can't make a profit selling real airplanes. Same as flying car companies, that sell something other than real products.
The real seaplanes actually selling in modest numbers are somewhat less glamorous.
Just got a general email from them. Apparently, they are offering demo flights in DeLand FL September 13 thru 18.
Well, if someone else isn't spending millions on advertising and high end executives, they can price their aircraft lower and grab a lot of market. Their aircraft just needs to be better value.
Maybe, but buyers who are already considering an Icon are looking for the cachet and "vibe" that Icon promises as part of the package. They aren't driving best-bang-for-the-buck Toyotas, they are driving high prestige "look-at-me!" cars.
There might be a market for a more moderately priced seaplane, but there are already some out there that aren't setting any sales records.
There will always be a few that want a Bentley over a Civic. What’s the ratio, 1 to 100,000? So, if moderately priced amphibs are selling at 50 per year, how will Icon sell 1000 per year? Icon can’t survive unless they start selling hundreds.
It's still the original promises that sticks in the craw. Price creep and spec creep is expected. Living off the old promise money for something that is not close is the real issue. A friend got his Model 3 Tesla about two months ago. It had price creep; about 25%. This aircraft is like added 200%. It's like a NASA project during an inflation run. None of the original depositors will ever see one, except the stars. If they had stopped, returned all the money and went ahead with the now project would have showed some honor and not some aviation ponzi. It's a show, the company can't sell enough planes to equal the value of the company. It's all about value of the company and not about aircraft. Corporate status for the management is all they care about.
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