Icon A5 Update - No Deliveries!?!

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by nucleus, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. Sep 7, 2018 #1121

    BBerson

    BBerson

    BBerson

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    In 2013, the Vickers company said they would have production aircraft for sale at Oshkosh 2014 here: https://www.bydanjohnson.com/cool-and-sexy-describes-new-lsa-amphibian/

    So here we are in 2018 and still no prototype. Maybe the "automatic folding wings" "180hp", "air conditioning", etc., etc... didn't meet proposed LSA weight?
    Seems like a "carbon copy" of Icon business model. :ermm:
     
  2. Sep 7, 2018 #1122

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

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    I think the end result is contained in that sentence. They need to make money on the ones they sell, and at the price they need to charge to make money and cover their debt and overhead, they won't be selling hundreds.
     
  3. Sep 8, 2018 #1123

    Geraldc

    Geraldc

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    Except I don't think Vickers are taking orders until they have something to sell.
     
  4. Sep 8, 2018 #1124

    BBerson

    BBerson

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    From the 2013 link:
    "Much like Icon Aircraft did some years back, Vickers Aircraft plans to collect a small deposit from early adopters and will give them special perks for jumping on board sooner. For example, Vickers is offering their first 100 position buyers a percentage discount off a seaplane expected to go for a price similar to Icon‘s A5. The offer is a fairly serious motivator, as much as a $37,000 discount. Icon came on the market at $139,000 but in what is often called “constant dollars” (meaning that today’s price involves more dollars, thanks to inflation). Icon buyers making recent delivery position orders report a price similar to what Vickers is considering for their Wave." Delivery positions are now available,” said Vickers. To get your name on the list and to receive information, email Paul Vickers.
     
  5. Sep 8, 2018 #1125

    BJC

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    “There is a sucker born every minute ....” incorrectly attributed to P. T. Barnum, but applicable none the less.


    BJC
     
  6. Sep 8, 2018 #1126

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    It is not. There is a battle between the various "owners" and law suits going back and forth. When the original factory was mothballed the engineering and tooling left and no one knows or is admitting where it is.

    So someone has to find the contents of the old factory or engineering office, win a lawsuit and then start over. There are Sea Max airplanes for sale. I hope it gets resurrected. It is a really nice design. It's one of the only Amphibs that can be landed gear down without the usual issues. Simple, strong, large load carrying capacity, roomy... Very nice. Tricky engine installation. With a turbo and a little drag reduction it would be amazing.

    Makes the Icon look like some gawdy Escalade that just came out of "Pimp my Ride." :)
     
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  7. Sep 10, 2018 #1127

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    Update on SeaMax. I talked to my contact and the lawsuits for the USA rights has been settled in the last couple months. I'll try to find out if they found or captured all the engineering and tooling during the settlement. I'll try to find out when they intend to produce new aircraft. Glad to here there is an attempt to keep this aircraft design from fading into history.
     
  8. Sep 10, 2018 #1128

    davidb

    davidb

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    Since they are offering demo flights in FL, I assume they are close to production. FWIH, lack of customer support in the US was the biggest downside of SeaMax and Super Petrel. Both look to be aggressively solving that issue.
     
  9. Sep 11, 2018 #1129

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    That is the question. I know the owner of SeaMax North America and still have some colleagues in common with him. There was a big mess going on until just recently but when I talked to him the other day because I was curious after the few posts he confirmed that he reconciled with the other party and the group in FL will be selling the design. There were rumors a while back that Embry Riddle was going to reverse engineer the airframe and that was what I was interested in anyway. Spent a year involved in investigating the design to look at reintroducing it but the rest of the project and company fell apart around it. Glad to see it is off in another direction and the people that were warring aren't anymore. It is such a great little airplane. I hope it doesn't go the way of the Icon. Hope they get some sane people and a sane budget and schedule and get it back in production. It won't be easy.

    Regarding flights in FL, I know that the owner had two complete airplanes for doing demos. I know there were a few more around in the same network. So they may have just relocated a couple down to FL and are using them as demonstrators. Maybe they bought some back from private owners. There were quite a few made I think 150 or something like that and quite a few in the states.
     
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  10. Sep 11, 2018 #1130

    davidb

    davidb

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    I find it amazing the empty weight is 300 pounds less than Icon. That’s a huge difference!
     
  11. Sep 11, 2018 #1131

    BBerson

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    The fabric wings and single strut saves significant weight and allows a smaller size. 20 mph faster also.
     
  12. Sep 12, 2018 #1132

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    It is a very clever design. It can carry a lot of weight. We tufted one up and took a bunch of video. There could be some simple drag reduction around the rear fuselage to make it even faster. It can be landed with the gear down which is huge for safety reasons. It can be landed with the gear up on land with very little if any damage. Probably the best training amphib ever conceived. With a turbo and a little tweaking it could be about as good as you can get in a 2 seat amphib.
     
  13. Sep 13, 2018 #1133

    davidb

    davidb

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    I just got another email from them with a link to their brochure. Yes, they are currently manufacturing them in Brazil and are available in the US. They have opened a sales and support center in Daytona Beach. Prices vary from $140-190 thousand depending on options. They don’t offer a 914 option and I’ve heard Super Petrel will cease that option as well which is unfortunate for west coast flyers with mountain lakes.

    So, there are four SLSA amphibs currently available in the US: Searey, Super Petrel, SeaMax, and Icon. They all have advantages and disadvantages over one another but basically perform the same mission with similar performance. Icon has the exclusive claim to being priced 2 to 3 times higher than the competition. IMO, Searey is still the best value and if the others don’t offer turbos, its the clear winner for west coasters.
     
  14. Sep 14, 2018 #1134

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    The newer model Rotax makes something like 130HP, perhaps that will be the "upgrade" version for high DA operation?
     
  15. Sep 14, 2018 #1135

    davidb

    davidb

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    Searey is doing some testing with the 915.
     
  16. Feb 7, 2019 #1136

    davidb

    davidb

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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GheMXnwhyXg

    Just heard of that one today. Talked to a guy that saw the two prototypes in person while in China. Not a clone but certainly a sister. Allegedly, poor workmanship and questionable materials.
     
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  17. Feb 7, 2019 #1137

    BBerson

    BBerson

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    Prototypes are often crude.
    Maybe Icon delayed production too long? They should have been rolling out version two by now to stay ahead of competition.
     
  18. Feb 8, 2019 #1138

    davidb

    davidb

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    I gather it’s been around for a year or two.

    05CA7F04-5ACA-41DF-8824-3393A3EF97E1.jpg

    I don’t see this as Icon competition. I’m told rich Chinese folks don’t buy knockoffs. They want the expensive real stuff. And, I doubt this could sell in the regulated free world.
     
  19. Feb 8, 2019 #1139

    DaleB

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    I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.
     
  20. Feb 8, 2019 #1140

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

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    You don't include any of the Aventura versions on your list?
     

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