Fullscale Fw-190, where to start

Discussion in 'Warbirds / Warbird Replicas' started by Hangar 6, Jul 30, 2016.

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  1. Jul 30, 2016 #1

    Hangar 6

    Hangar 6

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    Having grown up in an aviation family, and reading all the books on warbirds and classics has made me want to own a fighter. Sophmore year of highschool I decided I'd like to build one from scratch that I can start when I'm young and finish when I'm 40-50ish, which I know is a huge undertaking. It took me awhile to decide on an aircraft, a P-51 was the first choice until I learned about the cost and operational life of the Merlin and other V-12s, so I turned to the radial fighters. The Fw-190 seemed to fit what I wanted. Its a fighter, around the same dimensions of a T-6, and can use the ASh-82, which would be relatively cheap to operate in the warbird world (yes I know its still not cheap, plus I have to factor in insurance, etc.). Through out highschool I've been involved in numerous projects with airplanes and cars so I understand this plane won't build itself, and that it takes perseverance and lots of effort, blood, tears, and curse words. 1 step forward, 2 steps back. However I'm having trouble determining where would be best to start, as far as the actual building goes. I've already been doing quite a bit of research. I thought maybe purchasing these "plans" (FW 190 Blueprints TA152 FW 190 Aircraft Plans Focke Wulf 190 | eBay) and making 3D CAD models to send off to have CNC'd. I know these "plans" are incomplete, and are all in german which will require translation. Anyways all help is appreciated, feel free to try and talk me out of it and give me all the facts about how it can't be done.
     
  2. Jul 30, 2016 #2

    Jon Ferguson

    Jon Ferguson

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    I see no reason it can't be done. You are committed to it and willing to dedicate a large chunk of your life, it is achievable. All I ask is you put pictures of your progress on here for me drool over.
     
  3. Jul 30, 2016 #3

    plncraze

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    Get all the info you can on the Flug Werke replica. The company sold parts for the 190 that was sort of a kit. You can get a good idea of the structure.
     
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  4. Jul 30, 2016 #4

    skier

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    It is theoretically possible to do what you are suggesting.

    You can write the smithsonian archives and they will send you a list of all the information they have on the subject. I would expect that there's a good chance they could make you copies of all the original blueprints for the FW-190. I'm sure they have you sign something saying they are for research purposes only, however...
    https://airandspace.si.edu/archives-research-request

    This is just a guess, but for a project like this, I would expect it to take hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not over a million. And the T-6 isn't exactly a cheap aircraft to operate ($400+/hr from what I found online). It seems most people that own their own aircraft want to fly 50+ hours to maintain currency. That's $20,000 per year in operating costs.

    Why not look at a Titan T-51 or the WAR aircraft replicas. It isn't full size, but you can have a life and fly a mini-fighter?
    Titan Aircraft - T-51D Mustang
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Aircraft_Replicas_International

    If you really need a full-size, you should plan on having a really well paying career. Good luck.
     
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  5. Jul 30, 2016 #5

    cdlwingnut

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    FW-190 nice choice, how much fun would it be to pull up to the line of p-51s in one of those.

    one option might be to see if there is a wreak in North Africa or Russia where you can get a data plate. The Germans kept great records so I'm sure there are blue prints somewhere for the airplane.

    Good luck
     
  6. Jul 30, 2016 #6

    Riggerrob

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    WAR, Marcel Jurca, Richards, etc. have all published drawings of various sizes of FW-190 replicas. You can learn at lot from studying their blueprints.
    As for translating original German drawings ........ this is a good excuse to learn a second language. For example, when the RCAF posted me to West Germany, I took a night school class to learn how to read German. I always tuned my car radio to German radio stations and after a year, Skydive Kangaroo offered me a job jumping with tandem students who mainly spoke German.
    Even 30 years later, I still speak enough German to force a visiting Austria to ask me: "Are you Swiss?"
    Hah!
    Hah!

    The more languages you speak, the more you will enjoy your travels. Even if you only speak a few local phrases, locals will respect your effort to speak their language.
     
  7. Jul 30, 2016 #7

    TFF

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  8. Jul 30, 2016 #8

    Hangar 6

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    I've never really been satisfied with scaled down warbird replicas as far as looks go. So thats why i'd like to go full scale. Skier, thats a great idea about contacting the smithsonian. TFF, i'm pretty sure all of that tooling and rights went to Gosshawk Unlimited in Arizona.
     
  9. Jul 30, 2016 #9

    don january

    don january

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    Bro it all all about getting a fuselage up on it's gear and building some wing's. Then ya got to think what engine your going to hang the front. 109 190 pick one and jump in both feet. good luck and better yet have fun..
     
  10. Jul 30, 2016 #10

    erkki67

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  11. Jul 30, 2016 #11

    AVI

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    The FW190 is a great choice, not only because of its beauty and radial engine, but because of its modular construction. If you're going to build it, go full size. You're embarking upon a huge challenge, so you might as well go all the way. If it's scaled down, it's going to entail designing an entirely new airplane from scratch. Yes, full scale is going to be far more expensive to do, but you've got time on your side, so full size is probably going to be easier in the long run. Almost all the design work has already been done for you.

    The only drawback I can think of is that you're more than likely going to be limited to a single place warbird replica as the narrow cockpit is going to preclude adding that GIB seat, so you're not going to be able to share your enjoyment with friends. (The canopy is hinged at the top front to allow it to slide back along narrowing rails.)

    The place to start is to study the FW190 and to learn everything you can about the aircraft, not only its history and the variants, but more importantly, how the airframe goes together. While you're doing this, you can also study aircraft construction and design, aerodynamics, and get a good grasp of CAD, both 2D and 3D. You'll also have to study methods of construction, for example, composites, or metalwork, depending on which you eventually choose, but the first step is to become an expert on the FW190.

    Don't let pessimistic well-wishers piss on your parade. Yes, it's going to be an expensive project, and yes, it's going to be expensive to fly and maintain, but you've got the decades ahead to spread out the costs and to squirrel away operating costs. Besides, who knows what your financial position will be a decade or so down the road? Go for it.

    However, a word of caution regarding the eBay "drawings and blueprints" from a source in New Zealand - the man has a habit of stretching the truth in order to sell a DVD. There's some good stuff in his material, but it's far from complete. Caveat Emptor.

    Here's one great place to start:

    A. L. BENTLEY DRAWINGS | Product Categories German Aircraft

    The Bentley drawings which are the best, most accurate FW 190 drawings available, would
    be a good place to start. The draftsmanship is superb. The drawings are actual works of art.

    Another: the three volumes of FW190 by Smith & Creek

    https://www.amazon.com/Focke-Wulf-1...83214-2590446?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

    If you could use some inspiration, go here: http://www.typhoonlegacy.com/
     

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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016
  12. Jul 30, 2016 #12

    Aerowerx

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    I fully agree with this.

    I have seen cases where the plans being sold on DVD or instant download are available elsewhere for free!

    And then there is the problem of selling copyrighted plans. As AVI said, Caveat Emptor.
     
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  13. Jul 30, 2016 #13

    Toobuilder

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    I would think that unless you were looking for an exact replica down to every structural detail, you could cut a bunch of time by leaning on existing sport aircraft for construction. Keep the exact OML, gear, etc, but build a really big RV-3, for example. Not to say that this would be easy, but the point being, there were many considerations made in the original to accomodate its mission as a weapon which you dont have to duplicate.
     
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  14. Jul 30, 2016 #14

    AVI

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    Toolbuilder, there is merit in what you recommend, but building "a really big RV-3" would entail an entirely new design,whereas the design of the Fw-190 is already on paper. The structure of the Fw-190 is simplicity in itself. Have a look at the construction of the fuselage tub - it consists of a bottom and two slab sides. Simple. The wings? Upper and lower surfaces joined together. There's more ... so why reinvent the wheel? Why design a completely new airframe when the work's already been done? By Kurt Tank at that.
     
  15. Jul 30, 2016 #15

    Toobuilder

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    If that's the case, great. I was thinking more along the lines of eliminating any really complex manufacturing processes (if used) that might have made sense for large scale production, but not for a one off. Im thinking of the differences between the super simple Mustang, and the insanely complex Bearcat, for example.
     
  16. Jul 30, 2016 #16

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

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    So Hangar 6, I'm curious also to know what result were you looking for, an "exact replica" or a pretty good visually similar full size replica regardless of what was underneath and how it was constructed?
     
  17. Jul 30, 2016 #17

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    I saw a very convincing, all wood, Allison powered full scale Spit at Copperstate last year. Also saw a metal exact replica 190, powered by a P&W. I'd be happy to fly/own either one.
     
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  18. Jul 30, 2016 #18

    Winginit

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    The December 1990 edition of Sport Aviation contained a story about an industrialist named Jan Mueller of Plymouth Michigan. He created the "Fiesler Corporation " of Canton Mi. As the story goes, he set up shop and began to search far and wide in Europe for parts,plans,and planes in Europe, and brought 5 German Storches back for restoration. During that time he apparently made extensive contacts overseas and was able to locate lots of related items. Being that most aviation enthusiasts try to be helpful to one another, you might try contacting his company to see if they could put you on track to locate original drawings thru their contacts . I don't know if they still exist, but you could try checking on the Fiesler Storches owners and maybe locate some of the people mentioned in the article as being instrumental in restoring the airplanes. Figured since they were both German designs, there might be some help available there. Keep us advised on your project.
     
  19. Jul 30, 2016 #19

    AVI

    AVI

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    Wonderful idea. When I was researching tail markings on the 190, the Deutsches Museum was of invaluable assistance.
    You might also want to try Meier Motors, the renown WW2 aircraft restoration company in Germany. I'm sure they have the capability of building an entire airframe from scratch for you provided you've got sufficiently deep pockets. :)


    Deutsches Museum: Visitor information MeierMotors GmbH
     
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  20. Jul 30, 2016 #20

    cheapracer

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    VERY deep pockets. I think Americans, Australians, etc would be horrified to find what similar European companies charge.
     

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