# FLYTHERED.COM

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#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
I just want to know if it will go "potato, potato, potato" like a Harley...or would it be potato in German? (VW). Still prefer a radial...esp. a Warner or a Jake. Those say "Baked potatos"!

Derswede
Oh dear. Very few will want a Halfley DaVWidson:

Google translate

Hit the little speaker on the German side and you'll know why.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Hit the little speaker on the German side and you'll know why.
Well ... perhaps if she had a bit more gravel in her voice ... :gig:

On a serious note ... they said in an earlier video that they would be flying these at Oshkosh. I haven't heard anything of that. Anyone else know if they run any of these or flew them at the big show?

Curious minds want to know ...

Dale
N319WF

#### addicted2climbing

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
One thing to note is timelines and specs change as things develop. A running prototype does not mean its ready for production. Pete has been at this a good long time on his O-100 solving all sorts of unforeseen issues along the way. I cant foresee that this new Harley version would somehow not have a similar development timeline. Also Pete has decided to spend the time on the back end as well to have good hard numbers on various levels of testing. I hope this new motor would get some of the same which also takes time.

I like the idea of new options to the smaller 4 stroke world, but the specs seem a bit optimistic as others have said. However if he can get there awesome.

Lets just see how this all plays out and while the OP is enthusiastic about the design, saying its the best there is seems a bit premature. Lets hope it is and lives up to the proposed specs... if so than these claims may not be so unfounded, but only time will tell... The proof is in the pudding sort to speak..

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Well ... perhaps if she had a bit more gravel in her voice ... :gig:

On a serious note ... they said in an earlier video that they would be flying these at Oshkosh. I haven't heard anything of that. Anyone else know if they run any of these or flew them at the big show?

Curious minds want to know ...

Dale
N319WF
I think they had a static display at OshKosh.

#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
An 80" engine would need to be 150% efficient to make 75 hp at 3300 rpm...he has to be talking torque numbers.....unless he has a turbo hidden somewhere

Edit: In the video at 1:30 he is absolutely talking about torque and says it's 75-80 ft/lbs! Now it makes sense.

#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
That means he is right at 45 hp which is what I estimated in the other thread. Can you imagine the pounding those big pistons are going to deliver as a twin...

#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
Edit: He is swinging a 72" prop so the rpms can't be over 2500 so more like 35 hp. That is a lot of torque at this rpms so we can probably expect some German rain

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Can you imagine the pounding those big pistons are going to deliver as a twin...
About the same as an Aeronca, Franklin or O-100 twin?

#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
An 80" engine would need to be 150% efficient to make 75 hp at 3300 rpm...he has to be talking torque numbers.....unless he has a turbo hidden somewhere

Edit: In the video at 1:30 he is absolutely talking about torque and says it's 75-80 ft/lbs! Now it makes sense.
So, how do we explain this in print on the "FLY THE RED" web site:
Speaking of the aluminum case. 1320cc version, they say:
"The Javelina is a twin cylinder aircraft engine conversion based on the 1/2 VW. . . .
This allows the use of 9 1/2 to 1 compression ratio pistons, which produces 75 hp and comes in at 126 pounds, "
So, when they get around to building the promised 4 cylinder version, it will be 161 cu inches and put out 150HP? A Lycoming O-320 with about twice the displacement and with a CR of up to 9.0:1, puts out 160 HP. Somethin ain't right . ..

And, it turns out that their 75 HP is conservative in a relative sense, as the headline at the top of the page says " The Javelina, twin cylinder 95 HP 1/2 VW aircraft engine conversion."

Speaking of the smaller 1050cc 1/2 VW with a magnesium case, they say
"This setup will allow for compression in the 9.5 : 1 range in the future. Hoping to achieve 60 hp at 9.5:1."
Lone Star is surely responsible for the text they put on their own web site.

I hope they do well, the concept is a promising one. The surest road to success is careful work on their part and accurate, responsible claims regarding the progress of their development efforts.

ETA: Here's a dyno chart from a modified 80 cu in Harley EVO engine at 9.5 CR. It did produce 75HP and more--starting at about 5000 RPM. At 2700 RPM--about 40 HP. Maybe Lone Star can do some amazing cam magic, but 75 HP at practical direct-drive speeds seems very unlikely.

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#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
About the same as an Aeronca, Franklin or O-100 twin?
Yes but with proven aircraft parts, heavy crank, rods, etc.

As for the HP quotes you need to research it because something is not right here. Vigilant1 went exactly where I went, the Harley engine itself. It's just not there at those rpms. And Harley doesn't leave a lot of performance on the table as it is.

#### wanttobuild

##### Well-Known Member
The purpose for this thread is to raise awareness of this newly formed company.
Steve offers the VW powered AC community an interesting option for builders considering the this option.
The cylinder heads from the HD engine are gonna make the VW a premium choice.

>Moderator Edit<

Steve offers machine work. You can have the engine custom built. This is an Awsome resource!.
Have it built to your specs!

Trashing the guy ain't gonna sway anyone's opinion one way or another. Good luck with that.

I think because of this development I might start on a new tube frame. Yeah, I can do that.
Now y'all have a good day.
H-Minus

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#### wanttobuild

##### Well-Known Member
I am presently waiting to load $500,000 worth of resin. Just thinking about the newly available 4500-5000 rpm VW. I would like to discuss in a civil manner, the use of Aeromentum's PRSU. Is it professionally engineered? Its availability,$1500 or so, is tempting me to adapt it for type1 VW use.
This PRSU and viking's PRSU seem to use the same principle.
I haven't heard anything negative, but that is meaningless.
I think I would go to an Aluminum engine case, and eat the weight gain.
Would this be a good fit?
H-Minus

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Tuned intake manifolds would add around 10% to bhp and torque. Those don't fit well or look good on classicly styled bikes. Look under the bonnet of most cars made this century and you'll find them...

#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
I am presently waiting to load $500,000 worth of resin. Just thinking about the newly available 4500-5000 rpm VW. I would like to discuss in a civil manner, the use of Aeromentum's PRSU. Is it professionally engineered? Its availability,$1500 or so, is tempting me to adapt it for type1 VW use.
This PRSU and viking's PRSU seem to use the same principle.
I haven't heard anything negative, but that is meaningless.
I think I would go to an Aluminum engine case, and eat the weight gain.
Would this be a good fit?
From what I've heard, the Aeromomentum PSRU has performed well in air boats, and people have good things to say about the build quality. They use the rubber "guido" donuts to help provide some damping, the same as used in BMW transmissions. You'd have to contact Aeromomentum to see if they have been used on VW engines. Given the high cost of doing a thorough engine/PSRU/prop analysis, I doubt very much if this has been accomplished, the resources required are beyond most small manufacturers. It seems more likely that the unit was designed with an understanding of the general principles involved and what has worked elsewhere, tested in house, then sold to the airboat folks once it had accumulated enough hours.

If it hasn't been fitted to VWs, then an adaptor plate might be required, which will increase costs. Also, the power pulses/resonances of the VW boxer engine will be very different from an I-4, so if most of the Aeromomentum PSRU field experience is on I-4 engines, it may have limited applicability to VW Type 1 engines.

Isn't Lone Star going to offer a PSRU for this hoped-for engine? Why not go with that? Even mentioning the Aeromomentum product might be a problem, since we have read this:
When you try to mention any competition watch out!

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#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The domain needs to be parsed better... capitalize the F, T, and R, for instance.

I kept trying to sound it out when I first saw it. "Fly There D?" Some weird misspelling of "Feathered"? Norwegian version of Uber run by my distant relative, Erik the Red?

I finally decided it was someone with a lisp trying to say, "Fly Scared." And I thought, "I'm in!"

Ron Wanttaja
I think it’s a Control Line (U-control) plane... FLY TETHERED.

#### wanttobuild

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe a Lovjoy coupling could be installed between the engine and PRSU.

#### akwrencher

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Lovejoys are heavy, and there are much better options for a soft connection.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Just as much chance that a Lovejoy would help as hurt. Unless it by blind luck matched the design need, its an uncontrolled spring probably adding to the TV. If you were talking electric motors, you would have a much better chance to luck out.

#### wanttobuild

##### Well-Known Member
Just as much chance that a Lovejoy would help as hurt. Unless it by blind luck matched the design need, its an uncontrolled spring probably adding to the TV. If you were talking electric motors, you would have a much better chance to luck out.
I have replaced a coupling between a gm diesel and gen set.
They make many different sizes

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
My 23 year old grandson engineer has his name on a patent that has something to do with electro- magnetic coupling. My brain is to small.