Enclosing an Evans Volksplane VP-2

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cluttonfred

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Judging by the many VPs already flying, not to mention most dedicated agricultural aircraft ever built, it would seem that the effect of the struts on the aerodynamics may be overstated.

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That said, and we are getting into "21st century Volksplane" territory here, if I were designing a modern homebuilt in the same spirit I would go with a thick airfoil and a cantilever wing, perhaps something like a simplified, two-seat Tipsy Junior.

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TFF

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Cessna and Piper were going to naturally use struts, and they are about twice as big as the high wing planes they stole the wings from. As for speed, crop dusters are not known for speed. New ones are fast compared to a Pawnee, but not fast. That's why they are great glider tugs, they don't have to fly fast to stay in the air.
 

Sockmonkey

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That said, and we are getting into "21st century Volksplane" territory here, if I were designing a modern homebuilt in the same spirit I would go with a thick airfoil and a cantilever wing, perhaps something like a simplified, two-seat Tipsy Junior.
I've noticed that a lot of the older designs act like they have an allergy to thick surfaces, even though a fat teardrop is less draggy than a bunch of bracing wires.
 

Wanttaja

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Judging by the many VPs already flying, not to mention most dedicated agricultural aircraft ever built, it would seem that the effect of the struts on the aerodynamics may be overstated.
Strut-Braced Fly Baby:


Seems to do OK.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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Twodeaddogs

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Chris Heintz beat you to it decades ago...
I'm an inspector on two Zenith 601s and a 701 and I have great respect for these aircraft but sometimes, I have to shake my head at some of the design decisions of the early model 601s, especially. Some of the features included sharp edges and angles that defy logic and the use of angle alloy instead of turnbuckles. The hinged canopy can be a right pain to deal with and a sliding canopy would have been much better. The undercarriage set-up was just daft. Later 601XLs are much better. they are good aircraft but would have benefitted from a bit more critical scrutiny early on.
 

Twodeaddogs

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Thanks, I had not seen that, looks like a single-seater, not sure what the advantages might be other than meeting European microlight limits.
well, if you could put together a VP lookalike, with considerably better climb rate, within a few hundred hours, with simple fasteners and tube technology, you'd be doing alright and it looks conventional enough to appeal to more people who might be put off by the other Dalby aircraft.
 

Pops

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I'm an inspector on two Zenith 601s and a 701 and I have great respect for these aircraft but sometimes, I have to shake my head at some of the design decisions of the early model 601s, especially. Some of the features included sharp edges and angles that defy logic and the use of angle alloy instead of turnbuckles. The hinged canopy can be a right pain to deal with and a sliding canopy would have been much better. The undercarriage set-up was just daft. Later 601XLs are much better. they are good aircraft but would have benefitted from a bit more critical scrutiny early on.
The plans for my Zenith 600 shows aluminum angle instead of turnbuckles. Looks like someone just built to plans. Yes, the hinged canopy off the side is a pain. The Z-600 was also designed for 1835 cc VW engine.
 

Twodeaddogs

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In the UK, they changed out the aluminium angle for turnbuckles as a mandatory modification, which I agree with as setting the cable tensions is a pain. One of the two 601s I deal with has a belly hatch which makes access easier. The other has no hatch and access to the cables is awkward. Some of the skin thicknesses really need to be thicker, as the airframe can buckle like a coke can in places with little or no effort. I would also prefer a manual trim system, as the electric trim is very slow.
 

Wanttaja

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There were several Fly Baby's with the Cub gear which necessitated a different wing bracing. Was there any particular Fly Baby builder that originated that mod which everyone followed or where they more or less carte blanche?
I'm personally only aware of one, the Argentine one whose picture I posted.

Fly Baby biplanes often use Cub gear, but they solve the wing bracing problem another way.

Ron Wanttaja
 

Turd Ferguson

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I'm personally only aware of one, the Argentine one whose picture I posted.

Fly Baby biplanes often use Cub gear, but they solve the wing bracing problem another way.

Ron Wanttaja
I knew someone that built a Fly Baby in the '80's that used off-the-shelf Cub landing gear and Stits 'Playboy' type wing struts. I may have a picture of it somewhere.
 

Wanttaja

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I knew someone that built a Fly Baby in the '80's that used off-the-shelf Cub landing gear and Stits 'Playboy' type wing struts. I may have a picture of it somewhere.
Thanks, TF. I'd be interested in seeing it.

I did find a second picture of a strut-braced Fly Baby, but this one has spring-steel landing gear.

In the plans, Pete does suggest an alternative landing gear design that eliminates the cross-axle and looks like a Cub gear:

However, in this case, the cross-bracing is solidly welded and there are no bungees.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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Riggerrob

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........ [Zenith] 601 ....... Some of the skin thicknesses really need to be thicker, as the airframe can buckle like a coke can in places with little or no effort. I would also prefer a manual trim system, as the electric trim is very slow.
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Yes!
A friend flew his Zenith 601 more than 600 hours per year. Eventually the flat, aft fuselage skins wore out ..... forcing him to replace them.
I suggested creasing the new skins .... like Murphy does.
We have also heard Zenith 701 pilots complain that the fuselage is as loud as a giant trumpet horn .... noise caused by all the oil-canning and amplified by the cone shape.
 

mcrae0104

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Yes!
A friend flew his Zenith 601 more than 600 hours per year. Eventually the flat, aft fuselage skins wore out ..... forcing him to replace them.
Can you describe the problem more specifically? How does a fuselage skin wear out?
 

Tiger Tim

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A friend flew his Zenith 601 more than 600 hours per year. Eventually the flat, aft fuselage skins wore out ..... forcing him to replace them.
Is that what happens to them? I grew up in an area where there were a lot of active 601s and the shop where most of them were built had one wall covered in removed fuselage skins from the things. I guess that’s the side of cheap and easy airplanes that seldom gets discussed, the idea that they’ll more than likely have parts wear out faster both because of simplified construction and how often they’ll be flown.
 

cluttonfred

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I seeing this thread pop up in "My Replies" and look forward to seeing new ideas about "Enclosing an Evans Volksplane VP-2" but.... :-/
 
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