Cordless electric rivet gun and cordless high speed electric drill

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by pilotarix, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. Mar 15, 2017 #1

    pilotarix

    pilotarix

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    Hi all,

    As we all know there are multiple ways to skin a cat and probably just as many to build an airplane.
    Same with pulling pop rivets, multiple tools to do it. Probably the most common tool is an air driven rivet gun, but there are manual riveter and also electric driven rivet guns.
    However, since I plan to build the majority of the parts in my basement where space is limited and I can only use relatively noiseless tools and machinery, a suitable air compressor is not really an option. I thought about installing a kind of housing in the garage or even outside and have the pressure line going into the basement but that seems way too much hassle and cost. In addition, I am pretty good equipped with electric tools and have never used (and never missed) air driven tools so far.
    But... now I need a rivet gun that is not manual. Sure there are people who have build their entire planes with a manual rivet gun but this is really not my intention.

    Long story short, I looked around and I found some cordless electric rivet guns who I think would be ideal but the price is relatively high and I am wondering if I just can't find the lower price stuff. Maybe there isn't any?

    Here are some examples:

    https://www.grainger.com/product/PO.../rp/s/is/image/Grainger/40G468_AS01?$smthumb$

    http://www.s-bgroup.com/rivdom-cordless-rivet-guns.html

    https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...ZoaqNk1Eo2gwg9rwIDEhmK4wRWRTEzbRdXxoCG4Pw_wcB

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IK34RE4?psc=1


    The longer I search the more stuff I find but the price is always relatively high if compared with a good electrical drill.
    Maybe that is just the price because those tools are foremost used by the industry... ?

    Any input is greatly appreciated, are there people out there who have some experience with these cordless electrical riveters?

    What about a high speed cordless electrical drill ? Best RPM I was able to find so far is 2000 RPM, are there cordless ones with more RPMs out there?


    Thank you,
    Chris
     
  2. Mar 15, 2017 #2

    TFF

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    Hi speed on the drill is not a problem it is low speed. A good trigger on an electric drill so you can control and go slow. I have seen the electric rivet guns work. The ones I have seen spin up then pull the rivet. Kind of slow. For the same amount of money, a compressor and cheap palm drill and cheap rivet puller and air hose is a much better buy. Im not paying 900-1800 for that unless I am making money with it. Air Well worth the investment.
     
  3. Mar 15, 2017 #3

    Hot Wings

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    Second that opinion.

    Most of the noise from an air compressor comes from the intake, especially with the cheap portable units of the kind that contractors like to use on location. Most twin cylinder compressors have some form of crude intake filter that can be replaced pretty easily with a larger filter that will cut down the noise considerably. If this still isn't quiet enough a simple 2x2 and sheet rock box, with adequate ventilation to keep the temperature of the compressor under control, can make them almost silent.

    This is also one of these times it may be cheaper in the long run to buy larger and better than you really need. The resale value will be higher when you are finished with it, and the tools.
     
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  4. Mar 15, 2017 #4

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    He said it was going to be in a basement and that noise is an issue, so its not so much a money issue.

    Even if one undertakes the steps to make a quiet box for the compressor to fit in it doesnt totally remove the issue of noise tho it helps. Really depends on how quiet is quiet.

    That said it might be enough to save the money on an electric rivet gun at those prices, and go ahead with a long remote line from the compressor some where else, as once it's all made it has multiple uses. It's hard to argue for a 900 dollar tool with a specific purpose, even for this case.
     
  5. Mar 15, 2017 #5

    TFF

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    He said the compressor could be in the garage and run an airline, but though that was too much trouble. $1000 vs a little trouble and a new world of tools for the same amount? Not close.
     
  6. Mar 15, 2017 #6

    Marc Bourget

    Marc Bourget

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    Doing a little research into the design of "quiet boxes" would be worthwhile. 1/4" plywood, lined internally with used carpet " from a flooring contractor or HVAC "soundboard" (better but more $$) should do well for a small compressor. The critical feature is reversing inlet/exhaust channels also lined with the carpet or soundboard. Sound doesn't like to go around corners. Sometimes, cooling air flow is a problem. For one application, I bought a small squirrel cage fan and placed it in the inlet.

    I like the greater speed range of an air drill, especially for the diameters typically used in our practices.
     
  7. Mar 15, 2017 #7

    cheapracer

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    What in dang nation???

    I just bought another electric (with cord, so what) pop gun last week for less than $50, and it wasn't the cheapest one either! Yes I'm in China but gee, they must be in the USA also?

    2nd one for backup as the first one is starting to make 'noises' after 6 months, daily use and many, many thousands of rivets, and I can't afford to have down time.

    Then there's this maybe?

    http://www.s-bgroup.com/rivedrill-rivet-gun-attachment.html
     
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  8. Mar 15, 2017 #8

    Kevin N

    Kevin N

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    Easy for me to say because I have a big shop but I wouldn't want to build an airplane of any type construction without air tools. I vote for the quiet box. Avoid those cheap noisy air compressors. They are bad news.
     
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  9. Mar 15, 2017 #9

    Little Scrapper

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    Definitely figure out the air compressor solution. My big upright is pretty quiet but ithe would be easy to box it in if I needed to. I do have a shop but at one time I had air in my basement via a line in stuck through the rim joist. It ran in the garage and totally quiet in the basement. This was back when we had our first newborn.
     
  10. Mar 15, 2017 #10

    cheapracer

    cheapracer

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    I used to have nothing but air tools in my workshops, I'm over it, especially over the noise of a compressor running on and off all day.

    Electric all the way for me now and I haven't looked back, especially the electric rivet gun, the subject of the thread, trying to move the air gun around with it's big pot and airline in tight areas is just a PIA in comparison.
     
  11. Mar 15, 2017 #11

    Kevin N

    Kevin N

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    Aren't having choices great? My little 1/4" 4000 rpm sioux drill with a quality keyless chuck is responsible for 90% of the hand drilled holes in my shop. I have one of those clunky air pop rivet guns and don't use it much but understand the inconvenience. Looks like a quality elec rivet gun isn't cheap. I usually don't hear my air compressor kick on as I have dimebag darrel or some other type of death metal cranked up to about 110 decibels.
     
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  12. Mar 15, 2017 #12

    pilotarix

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    Hi all,


    thanks for your great input!

    OK I thought I had made my decision already but now I am in the air again, all of you made very valid points.

    I thought that an cordless electric tool, aside from not needing the air compressor, has the advantage that there is no tripping over the air hose or kicking stuff off the worktable and so on.

    I see the following advantages in the cordless electric riveter:

    - very easy to maintain
    - no additional workaround for noise
    - no maintenance of the compressor itself
    - no additional shop or garage space occupied
    - no setup time needed, unpack and go..
    and maybe some more...

    However I see the advantages of the air tools too.

    When I still thought about air tools I had checked the 15 Gallon compressor from California air tools and thought that is a nice solution, because those are very quiet, but then I found some very bad reviews stating poor quality and literally no service so I scrapped this...
    Any experience with California Airtools here?

    What would be a workable size for an air compressor? Sure bigger is always better and can do more, but is also not always feasible.

    This is only one of the problems ... but mom really hates it when the little guy (3y) is woken up around midnight by tool noise from the basement.:whistle:

    thanks
    Chris
     
  13. Mar 15, 2017 #13

    pilot103

    pilot103

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    I spent a couple of winters working in the basement, I left the compressor in the garage bought a couple of 25 foot airhose extensions, snaked them into the basement and went to work. I could barely hear the compressor run. But I already had air tools.
     
  14. Mar 15, 2017 #14

    Arthur Brown

    Arthur Brown

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    Does your design permit tubular rivets? It's no good pulling pop rivets if the design specifies something better (solid rivets and a rivet snap tool).
     
  15. Mar 15, 2017 #15

    Little Scrapper

    Little Scrapper

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    Here's the thing, you need to put this in perspective. Some of us are blue collar shop guys who thrive in shop environments. We love tools. Airplanes or not, we still use our shop.

    Some folks are not shop guys. They run a career during the day with no shop and still want to build one airplane for themselves. Once the airplane is complete it's quite possible this individual won't need or want a shop again. Usually he converts his garage and basement in to a temporary shop.

    I'm part of group one, if I didn't have a big air compressor I'd likely go nuts with frustration because I use it every single day.

    So which group are you part of? If you're part of the second group I guess I'd focus on minimal input costs that are highly efficient.
     
  16. Mar 16, 2017 #16

    pilotarix

    pilotarix

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    Thank you for your answer.

    I think I get the difference between these two groups. I am clearly not a blue collar shop guy ... I "run a career" (serious...:rolleyes:) during the day but none of my colleagues would ever imagine what I am doing during my time off.

    Actually I have a mixed wood/metal shop in my basement which contains a metal lathe, bench top mill, table saw, jointer, band saw, planer and a CNC router with a water cooled high speed spindle which I have build from a kit and a bunch of electric hand tools.

    So I would say that I am in between these two groups, I like good professional tools and always buy them if I can justify the extra money. My very personal opinion is that inexpensive tools are often wasted money - and time. I buy tools and machinery in order to work with them and actually produce something and not to get a "new hobby".

    However there are limitations and the question what is reasonable for the hobby. If money would not be an issue at all and I would have the space, I would buy the best compressor with a 90 gallon air tank or the best industrial cordless electric riveter - no question. Unfortunately that is not the case. Hence if I finally would decide for air tools, I still would like to buy a good compressor but then the question becomes what size of air tank is somewhat reasonable for the planed job - ups OK - building from a Zenith kit, likely the 750 STOL.
    Finally, as long as I am able to use my hands I will always have a shop. I am not really happy without something to do. The longer I think about this the more air tools I can imagine for the wood working shop, a nice brad nailer for example. :)

    thanks
    Chris
     
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  17. Mar 16, 2017 #17

    Little Scrapper

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    Chris, it's safe to assume you're a shop guy. It's ok you come out of the closet and confess. Haha.

    Fortunately, assuming you can wait it out, I've seen some pretty good deals on Craigslist for used compressors. You just need to be patient but you'll find one.
     
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  18. Mar 16, 2017 #18

    MikePousson

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    As for compressors, I'd be looking at only a couple of things. SCFM and recovery. Belt drive is quieter than the direct drive. They just chug along. Air drills need a lot of flow, while a pull riveter probably not as much.
     
  19. Mar 16, 2017 #19

    Pops

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    I like to use electric as much as possible. I have a larger air compressor but not large enough for continuous sand blasting of fuselages, etc. I only use the air compressor for small air usage tools like riveting, pumping up tires, small paint guns. My old friend and airplane building pardner uses more air tools than I do and is finishing a hanger two doors away and he bought an air compressor that puts out 37 cfm @ 165 psi. Weights close to a thousand pounds,( paid $230). Soon as the weather warms up we will be setting the air compressor on a concrete pad outside the rear of the 60'x60' hanger and building a well insulated room around it and run air lines down each side of the hanger. Can't have to large of an air compressor when sand blasting.
     
  20. Mar 24, 2017 #20

    TJay

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    If your basement isn't finished, about 50 dollars for some R-19 ich alation stuffed in the floor joist will help quiet things down too.
     

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