# angel investors

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#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
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Yet we still have our share of problems and people struggling. The scale just slides, and slides, and that's sortof of the point. I don't have any qualms with saying the US is a great place. I don't think it's the only great place, nor the best in every way. But it's got a lot going for it and smart people from around the world keep filling the visa quotas to live here.

There's truth to the idea that at some point it was realized or engineered to make it so that most people do need to borrow for college or for a car or for whatever; and maybe before then it was quite possible to accomplish things in a timely manner without having to borrow towards it. But the big money has already crossed the Rubicon, we aren't going to get back to the old paradigm through any sort of collective awakening in how to better spend our money and how to cast out the corrupt. If it ever swings back it'll be through some form of regulation or massive re-shuffling of the fundamental figures, via war, tech breakthrough, massive unifying purpose, revolution, market crash, etc.
Of course it's not perfect, it never will be. I'm not a fan of comparing other countries because we are not other countries. Usually it involves more government subsidies. No thanks.

Today on Facebook 3 companies advertising free pilot training. There's literally programs for everyone. Join the military, serve your country and they'll pay for school.

Interesting thing about success that books always fail to deliver. It's 95% attitude and likability. I'm very serious. Psychologist have said this for decades, so many people are bias and this bias tendency just screws up a life like no other force on the planet. Regardless of your country you can ask yourself two questions every morning and if you are serious about wanting the truth you'll know what to do.

1.) What things am I doing to screw up my success.
.........write them out.

2.) What one thing can I do right now that would makeeore successful.
......write it down.

Do this every morning and every evening for a month and watch what happens. America is the greatest place on the planet to be asking those questions. It's not even debatable in my opinion.

In my family we are not allowed to complain. I will smack me kids to the ground if they ever once even mutter a single complaint about other people, the government, society ect. It's a disgusting habit. And they don't. They know full well that the only thing that matters is how they react to the reality laid before them. There's nothing else in my opinion. Life is problems, it's suffering the only way to transcend this suffering is to pick a high aim or goal and get busy working on it. It's the oldest story in the world.and America was designed to facilitate that belief system.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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But one person's success can be very different from another's persons success. For me I put my freedom above money and the ability to help the people in life that I come in contact with, for some people success means lots of money. Like I said success in money is living on 10% of my income and helping people with the other 90%. I'm not a financial success yet. I am blessed with a good family and I'm proud of my 3 children and 8 grandchildren. In that way I am a success.

#### Little Scrapper

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But one person's success can be very different from another's persons success. For me I put my freedom above money, some people success means lots of money.
Very true. I personally don't think of those people. Honestly, I don't know them, I wouldn't know where to start. I've managed to surround myself with incredibly awesome people. If I took an honest look at myself it's never been about money. It's about shouldering a burden and carrying that burden. There's freedom in that.

The last house I did was marginal. The payout was so so, we had a lot of problems and I look back at how awesome those problems were to solve. It's the same as building a airplane. So easy to buy one, but that challenge to balance life and building man is that awesome. The process makes you a better person.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
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Actually, I'm gonna add to that.

He'll exists, and it can happen right here on Earth and it happens every day. Absolute HELL is a situation in which a person doesn't pick a worthy goal. With no goal you have no meaning, no purpose. With no meaning or purpose you have no other reason to exist other than to breath and eat. Those people ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS do all the complaining.

Fastest way to get out of hell is to pick up your cross and carry it. Pick a great burden and start carrying it, them create routine every day around that goal. Psychologists have said for decades that a human with no routine withers aways a dies a miserable death.

Books have been written about Jewish people in concentration camps finding joy, finding purpose, finding happiness. It's all the same thing.

Complainers are a cancer to society. Avoid those people at all costs is what I tell my kids. I don't even let them in my house. Pretty strong but that's my belief.

The quickest way to solve societies problems? Easy. Work on yourself. The Bible taught me that. That lesson is the oldest lesson in history and it's true.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
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harrisonaero:

Did you get useful answers to your questions?

BJC

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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Words have power, you get what comes out of your mouth. Complainers get what they say. You are correct, to work on societies problems, tackle your problems first. That will take a lifetime of work for each one of us.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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harrisonaero:

Did you get useful answers to your questions?

BJC
Now what was that question again ?

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Reality is your value is related to the community you live in. Your personal economy matches where you live. If I did what I do in New Hampshire, I would be making double. My cost of living would match that pay rate. Everyone chooses to live and put up with their area. My house would cost three times as much in LA and a quarter less in West Virginia. Places have premiums. I have a programmer friend, single no kids. $50 an hour job here;$150 in SanFransisco. Every fourth week he comes back to Memphis to get a haircut. He is keeping proof of Tennessee citizenship because he does not want to pay Cal tax. Living one place, getting paid from another takes work. He could never do that with a normal family. My cousin and his family just moved to Seattle. He went from owning his home to renting. He is an anesthesiologist. He gets payed a lot but makes no more money because of cost. It is not saving it is making more than it costs to live. I bet all who have everything payed for worked double hard not just saved leftovers.

#### Little Scrapper

##### Well-Known Member
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Words have power, you get what comes out of your mouth. Complainers get what they say. You are correct, to work on societies problems, tackle your problems first. That will take a lifetime of work for each one of us.
I agree. What's that old saying? "It's easier to rule a city than it is to rule over one's self"

I'm personally not equipped to solve life's problems. I have so much work to do on myself that it keeps me occupied 7 days a week. And that's why I don't complain about America, imagine how the world would tilt if everyone woke up in the morning and said "what can I do today that would make me a better person?" Because every action and thought a person has either tilts the world a little towards Hell or a little towards Heavan. And the people around watching? They get better because you set the example.

This is what religions teach, it's what schools use to teach and believe it or not once upon a Time colleges use to teach this too. Once upon a time.

I'm old fashioned. I blame myself.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
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We've discussed this before, and not everyone here agrees, but the federal government increased the cost of a college education dramatically by underwriting student loans. i.e., They artificially shifted the supply verses demand relationship. College staffing soared, as did professors' and administrators' salaries. They admitted more and more students because the government told people that a college degree was necessary to be successful (it isn't). Tenured professors are extremely well paid, even if they teach only one class per year.

I had a couple of professors who were pilots.

BJC

Edit: At the same time, the quality and usefulness of a high school education started to decline. That continues today in most government schools.
Let me personally apologise to the rest of the World for one of my Australian Governments initiating these trends in the mid 1980's. It was a scheme poorly thought out long term, but has a massive bonus to Governments, in that young people in schools, colleges and universities as well as Adults in training programs otherwise, makes unemployment figures look far better than the reality.

Today in Australia, one half of all 25 year olds are unemployed, and a good many of them have a degree or high qualification otherwise of some sort, but zero experience and unemployable. We also have a seriously falling number of Tradesmen because kids were encouraged to gain higher education, even forced by law to finish high school, and therefore became too expensive to be taken on as Apprentices because we have stringent wage rates increasing by age as teenagers.

All major countries need to get back to real world, on the job training like when I was an Apprentice, 4 days working, one day in Vocational College each week.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I don't think anyone here has experience with any angel investor.
My guess is the Icon and Terrafugia types are being financed by money fund managers using other people's money, rather than angel investors that use their own personal money.

#### harrisonaero

##### Well-Known Member
harrisonaero:

Did you get useful answers to your questions?

BJC
Ha ha, got about what I expected from this gang But even in banter there can be insights. The biggest thing I'm mulling on now is what makes the difference between a DDI (doctors/dentists with disposable income) angel and someone that simply puts a down payment on an airplane to get a delivery spot. And is there way to leverage the two approaches to provide more incentive for the investor.

Look at the Raptor- <apparently> over 1500 deposits of $2000 each with a$65 non-refundable escrow fee. The escrow company likes this- $3M gaining interest and almost$100k in just fees. And this for a plane that is...

What's the gain for Raptor- proof that at least 1500 people want the airplane. Judging from his profile on AngelList I'm guessing Peter's self-financing seed money off the sale of his last tech company (total guess) but eventually he'll have to pony up for loans or rounds of equity and all those deposits will look good. Then again, that didn't work for the Skycatcher and so far hasn't worked out for Icon. Can name lots of others as well. So refundable deposits an aircraft company doesn't make.

So what's in it for the angel that wants the perfect airplane? Early delivery spot, reduced price, and an equity share in the company. This may be enough for most DDI types.

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
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Log Member
Government debt, ( putting more non-value money in the economy) devalues the money in the economy ( called inflation). You dollar today is worth less that ONE cent in compared to the money in 1913. We got that way with government debt.
There is a time lag between making the government debt and the devaluing of your money as its get flowing in the economy but the correlation is still there.

The highest buying power for the people in the history of the U.S. was in 1973 and has been going down hill ever since. Yes, its still the best country in the world but we are starting to go into the wrong direction by going from a Capitalist economy to a Socialist economy.

Compare the NET WORTH of people today to the NET WORTH of people in 1973.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I don't think a wise angel investor expects to get any money back. Consider it a gift.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I don't think anyone here has experience with any angel investor.
Many years ago, I worked for a large, privately owned, conglomerate. One of my sideline responsibilities was to evaluate requests for financial support of inventions and start-ups, i.e., to be an angel investor.

BJC

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Sure, Johnson and Johnson Company or Paul Allen can do as they wish for some whim. But a viable business plan for a new airplane design is very unlikely.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
I suck at soliciting money.
I've tried it three times now. They all turned out to be good ideas. Either for someone else, or in a much reduced fashion, for myself. A physics teacher once said that although I was the smartest guy in the room, my inability to bullpoop would mean I probably wouldn't be very successful in life. I've learned to work from my own resources...

#### Pops

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
I suck at soliciting money.
I've tried it three times now. They all turned out to be good ideas. Either for someone else, or in a much reduced fashion, for myself. A physics teacher once said that although I was the smartest guy in the room, my inability to bullpoop would mean I probably wouldn't be very successful in life. I've learned to work from my own resources...
I'm like you, but my first cousin's parents died when he was 11 years old and he came and lived with me and my grandfather when I was 8 years old , IQ of 145, just a HS education but very well read and could present himself anyway he wanted, in other words a born con-man. Been rich and broke several times. Liked to gamble. Went in the navy at 17 years old , been a sheriff in TX, owned a detective agency in Miami, owned the biggest RV dealership in FA at one time, etc. Got into running drugs with an old Piedmont Airlines buddy with he worked for Piedmont and ended up with a contract on his life , survived after 2 years in a VA hospital. Found his buddy floating in Tampa Bay, etc. His life would make a good book. My corp pilot grandson has a line a mile long, so his is like my cousin in that area and also a very hi IQ. Same for my farther. My family was very wealthy in the 1930's and 40's, my sister and I had nannies , had domestic help in the house, etc. My father drove cars that would cost 200k today, best house, best everything, until the IRS came after him and his pardners in business and he went flat broke,took every penny, and one pardner got 10 years in prison. I can remember some of it. That is how I went to live with my Grandfather. Long family story.

#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
So what's in it for the angel
Unless it's an outright love for the product and the Angel just wants to see it on the market sharing their love, not the normal, but certainly happens, then the Angel's biggest and most important question to be answered way in front of all others is:

I learnt a valuable lesson at 22 years old when I went to my bank and told him I wanted an overdraught (that's what they used to call it kids) to put a batch of a specific product on the floor.

He asked me why, was I buying them cheap? No.

Was the product unique?
No.

Is there a big profit in them?
No

Then why should I give you the overdraught? Because every supplier I know in Australia has run out of them, will not have stock for months, I can get them right now and I would be the only one with stock in Australia which will enable me to sell them full price and sell all of them quickly (for which i did).

That's all he wanted to hear, the "Advantage". I not only got the overdraught, he added a little extra to make sure all costs were covered. I was young and knaive and I was thankful for that moment, along with another lesson, that I have carried with me to many successes.