10/23 Raptor Video

[dave wolfe]

If the canard does stall at a sufficiently slower speed, then:
1) landing gear legs would need to be taller for prop clearance
2) smaller prop diameter
3) and/or prop thrustline moved upwards relative to airframe

#3 seems like the most feasable but would need new cowl molds and changes to the redrive and would invalidate any aerodynamic flight teat work thus far

 

[wsimpso1]

If the canard does stall at a sufficiently slower speed, then:
1) landing gear legs would need to be taller for prop clearance
2) smaller prop diameter
3) and/or prop thrustline moved upwards relative to airframe

#3 seems like the most feasable but would need new cowl molds and changes to the redrive and would invalidate any aerodynamic flight teat work thus far

1) Might be pretty easy, and should be done anyway to allow slower landings without prop strike risk. Attach points need to be beefed up based upon issues uncovered during taxi test. This might require a step for cabin ingress/egress;
2) Not a good idea - reduces takeoff thrust;
3) Redrive and cooling and turbos all need a huge rework, and that will mean a new cowling anyway. I do not have an opinion on current thrust line position and angle, but it might stand some lifting.

Billski

 

[speedracer]

There are good reasons you don't "flap" canard configurations.

The Beech Starship has main wing flaps (I think limited to 30 degrees down). Before the flaps are deployed the canard is swept back (can't remember how many degrees).

 

[TFF]

Are flaps used in other canards? I know of speed brakes. Would not flaps on the main wing make a dramatic pitch change? And isn’t the canard going to be the limiting factor in stall, anyway? There is the drag effect of flaps, but it seems complicated without knowing how it’s going to compensate.

 

[lelievre12]

You can see the Starship Fowler flaps in this landing configuration shot.



I am not an expert but in this shot the canard actually looks swept forward. This would make sense as moving the canard C/L forward would counter the flaps lift aft of CG.

And here is a 'ground' shot of the Starship with canards swept back. Neat.

 

[bmcj]

Are flaps used in other canards? I know of speed brakes. Would not flaps on the main wing make a dramatic pitch change? And isn’t the canard going to be the limiting factor in stall, anyway? There is the drag effect of flaps, but it seems complicated without knowing how it’s going to compensate.

Probably the most extreme example I’ve seen of flaps on a canard is on the Rutan Grizzly, but that is technically a three-surface craft and (IIRC) flaps were used on both the fore and aft wings.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

The Beech Starship has main wing flaps (I think limited to 30 degrees down). Before the flaps are deployed the canard is swept back (can't remember how many degrees).

The canard on the Starship was swept aft in cruise flight and swept forward with the flaps deployed. So, you *can* flap canards, but there are very good reasons you *don't* flap canards.

 

[Toobuilder]

Rather than do the major redesign of adding flaps, how about just bring the airplane back to target weight?

Or is the "production version" expected to be 1300 pounds overweight too?

 

[flywheel1935]

Adding more complexity & weight, ummmmmmmmm !!! sounds like a sound idea

 

[BBerson]

The target weight is to match a similar airframe weight of a pressurized aircraft plus the extra weight of the chosen diesel. There is no magic
So the P210 is made of thin metal and is about 2600 or something and add 400 extra for the diesel and a reasonable target weight then becomes 3000.
The canard isn't ideal for high wing loading because flaps are not easily added. Modern aircraft normally use complex flaps to get the high CL needed for a reasonable landing speed combined with the high wing loadings for comfortable high speed cruise.

 

[flywheel1935]

1500 'deposits' for an untried , highly complex aircraft, ( now with added flaps ) that you'll build in your garden shed , then fly your loved ones in a/c comfort from San Francisco to New York at 300kts. My bet is 1499 deposits are from non-flyers, and 1 from a new PPL. If PM was on Twitter he would be banned by now !!!!
Another thought !!! If people are vain enough to post there 'achievements' on YT, then they lose the right to turn off the comments section ???

 

[lelievre12]

My P210N emptyweight is 2647#. Thats with radar, tip tanks, backup alt etc etc. Lightweight Vs0 is around 44KIAS. And 4000# MTOW Vs0 is 54KIAS.

The Robertson R/STOL kit on my plane has stall fences fitted and also droops the ailerons with the flaps. Otherwise the laminar airflow wing is unchanged. No cuffs or vortex generators.

Here is a shot landing at KFHR. Note the drooped ailerons and stall fences.

 

[Speedboat100]

You can see the Starship Fowler flaps in this landing configuration shot.

View attachment 106168

I am not an expert but in this shot the canard actually looks swept forward. This would make sense as moving the canard C/L forward would counter the flaps lift aft of CG.

And here is a 'ground' shot of the Starship with canards swept back. Neat.

View attachment 106174

Somehow I get the feeling the canard aeroplane flap systems are not in the peak of their developement yet ?

 

[Hot Wings]

Exactly. He's looking for major aero fixes but has yet to do any significant envelope expansion on the current configuration?

// No time to fix it right
/*
Old code here
*/
// Sunk cost that might be floated to the surface again

#include <just some of the bad ideas.h>

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Note the drooped ailerons and stall fences.

Do you notice a difference in roll while the ailerons are drooped?

 

[Speedboat100]

Will the Raptor reach these speeds ?

170 kn top speed ?

RMT Bateleur - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[PPLOnly]

Somehow I get the feeling the canard aeroplane flap systems are not in the peak of their developement yet ?

With no real data to pull from this should be a fascinating exercise for an amateur to develop.

 

[TarDevil]

Somehow I get the feeling the canard aeroplane flap systems are not in the peak of their developement yet ?

Oh, I'm sure it's peaked.

 

[rbarnes]

I think pretty much everything under the sun sub-sonic and with propeller(s) was tried in the 1930's and 40's .... its why we still fly behind 1940's engine technology

 

[mcrae0104]

Will the Raptor reach these speeds ?
170 kn top speed ?

Save your question for the first few customers, to whom it will be left to explore that end of the V-N diagram.