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Thread: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

  1. #226
    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilant1 View Post
    I would probably stick with the wings I'd built, though, at least until a close estimate can be made of the weight of the as-built Ranger wings, and see just how close your present wings will come to working on that design.
    Mark
    Hi,
    No worries. I'm just a bit sensitive about the fact that the Aeromax was supposed to be my "guaranteed-to-finish" build, but it hasn't quite worked out that way. Your suggestion regarding the wings is spot-on, of course. It's more a matter of day-dreaming on my part while I wait for the first pay-cheque to arrive.

    I did get a reply from Capral (local aluminium dealer) - and the price of the tube is surprisingly good. $329 + $51 for delivery. I had been steeling myself for much more than that. That's for a 6m length.

    Duncan
    ====================
    Brisbane, Australia

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    Registered User BBerson's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote:
    ["His weights:
    Each full rib: 0.75oz each
    Spar: 4.75lbs.
    Each wing (finished weight): 15lbs

    And that's for a sailplane, with humungus wings. So I'm wondering whether I should look at new wings made with the Marske-style CF spar and foam ribs. I already have 200ft of CF rods from Marske".]

    Are these .75oz each foam ribs spaced very closely? Seems an impossibly light structure.

  3. #228
    Registered User FritzW's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    I finished up the version 2 mock up files tonight. I won't have a chance to cut them tonight, hopefully tomorrow or Tuesday. If I fit it'll be time to throw some A/C ply on the machine .

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	79041 Version 2 will let me accurately cut the top off and raise it up if it's too low.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	79042 It's like putting a jigsaw puzzle together. I tried to get it all to fit on two sheets but no luck.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	79045 The pictures look bad but the files are good if anyone wants the DXF's or GCode...
    Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr

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  5. #229
    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by BBerson View Post
    Are these .75oz each foam ribs spaced very closely? Seems an impossibly light structure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geraldc View Post
    Attachment 78716
    These foam ribs are by rough calculation about 1/3 the weight of alloy.They weigh 24 grams each or 0.8 oz.
    Material is Gurit Corecel M at 70kg per m3. Very strong and compatible with epoxy, vinylester and polyester resins.
    Thickness is 8mm
    The Carbon Monarch has 13 ribs per side, made of CF
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So the foam ribs seem heavier than even foam ribs - it seems the 0.8oz weight quoted for the foam ribs is only for the D-tube section(?) but this isn't clear Perhaps geraldc could elucidate?

    Regards,
    Duncan
    ====================
    Brisbane, Australia

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    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Hi Fritz,
    These look great. Yes, I'd love the DXF files please...

    Regards,
    Duncan
    ====================
    Brisbane, Australia

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    Registered User Victor Bravo's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Duncan, please add my opinion to the "Stick with the wings you have" side of the argument. Get the hybrid RangerMax in the air safely and fly the thing. Sometime later, when you have a pile of extra cash laying around, you can look into building the Ranger wings and see if they're lighter or heavier than what you have now.

    Comparing what you are building in wood or foam with one of Marske's CF wings is ridiculous. Marske's glider likely weighs 50-100 pounds less than the AeroMax or the Ranger. So of course the wings can be lighter. That is 100% irrelevant to the mission and the aircraft you are building.

    Once you actually have a built set of AeroMax wings sitting in your shop, the existence of some other exotic way to construct a wing that is lighter (and more expensive, time consuming, and requiring a new engineering effort) is 300% irrelevant.
    "Everything in this book may be wrong."
    Richard Bach, Illusions

    "Common sense is so rare today, it should be reclassified as a superpower!"
    Derswede


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    Registered User mcrae0104's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by FritzW View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fritz, this is looking great. Kudos for being a doer and not just a talker/dreamer.

    This is meant with zero disrespect, only curiosity: are you engineering this fuselage structure, or is it more of a proof-of-concept for a construction method? What got me thinking in particular is the longitudinal joint through the seat back portion of the structure. I'm sure I'm not thinking of anything you haven't, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on continuity through this shear web.
    ​simplify.

  9. #233
    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Victor Bravo:
    Yes, thanks mate. Correct on all counts. I think my main problem is that I think out loud. Or on paper. I really have to stop daydreaming online for the world to read.

    Fritz:
    Some questions:
    1. Size of the spruce pieces? I have quite a it of 20mm x 20mm stock - would this be suitable?
    2. I am assuming that the plywood in your drawings is 3mm?
    3. I am also assuming that all the little reinforcing pieces will be forthcoming before too long?
    4. How do you envisage bonding this all together? T-88?
    5. Finally, are you simply going to use the Skybike/Kolb/Other (?) wing fold mechanism?


    Regards,
    Duncan
    ====================
    Brisbane, Australia

  10. #234
    Registered User pwood66889's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by FritzW View Post
    I finished up the version 2 mock up files tonigt.
    3 sheets isn't that bad for a fuselage, Fritz. You said what size ply, right?

  11. #235
    Registered User FritzW's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    <<<Is it me or is the HBA site acting goofy today? ie. Pictures show up as links, picture size limits, post disappeared when I hit the submit button.>>>

    Quote Originally Posted by mcrae0104 View Post
    ...are you engineering this fuselage structure, or is it more of a proof-of-concept for a construction method?
    The real fuselage is being engineered. This is just a foam mock up to see if I fit in/on it. Other than size and shape it has no relationship to the real thing.

    The splice your talking about has a doubler on the inside. If the doubler is the same material as the skins it'll carry 100% of the skin shear plus a little from the butt joint. (the same method is used on the VP)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr

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  13. #236
    Registered User FritzW's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by rtfm View Post
    ...

    Fritz:
    Some questions:
    [*]Size of the spruce pieces? I have quite a it of 20mm x 20mm stock - would this be suitable?
    .75"x.75" Spruce or DF so 20mm x 20mm Spruce will work [*]I am assuming that the plywood in your drawings is 3mm?
    It's 1/8" but I don't think the .007" difference would cause a problem. There's some 1/16" ply also. [*]I am also assuming that all the little reinforcing pieces will be forthcoming before too long?
    All the ply pieces of the real fuselage will be on cookie sheets also (this is just the foam mock up)[*]How do you envisage bonding this all together? T-88?
    I'll open that can of worms when I start putting the real thing together (no need to start that debate yet )[*]Finally, are you simply going to use the Skybike/Kolb/Other (?) wing fold mechanism?
    On the first one it'll probably just be VB's rope trick mentioned earlier
    >>>
    Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr

  14. #237
    Registered User FritzW's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by pwood66889 View Post
    3 sheets isn't that bad for a fuselage, Fritz. You said what size ply, right?
    Almost all 1/8", there's a little 1/16" and there might be a little odd sized ply on the spar carry throughs if I have to make up some thickness. Won't know until I get started on the wing.
    Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr

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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    Quote Originally Posted by rtfm View Post
    The Carbon Monarch has 13 ribs per side, made of CF
    Click image for larger version. 

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    So the foam ribs seem heavier than even foam ribs - it seems the 0.8oz weight quoted for the foam ribs is only for the D-tube section(?) but this isn't clear Perhaps geraldc could elucidate?

    Regards,
    Duncan
    foam rib in original photo is d section in front of spar for a 3 foot 6 inch chord (approx)wing

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    Registered User rtfm's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    I've gone to look for VB's rope wing fixture - but can't find it. VB? Help?
    ====================
    Brisbane, Australia

  17. #240
    Registered User Victor Bravo's Avatar
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    Re: The Ranger, an easily built high wing LSA runabout

    This is a very complex and expensive bit of engineering, involving a 6 inch diameter loop of rope and a square knot on each side of the aircraft. Be prepared for a lot of work:

    Procure four hardware store quality "screw eye" fasteners. This hardware must be at least Grade 1 or Grade 2 quality, and must have been sourced from the Wing Ding Jing province in China, and must have been manufactured by either General Tso's Hardware, Twice Cooked Hardware, or the Kung Pao Hardware Company.

    Source approximately three feet of rope. The rope must be able to support the weight of one wing panel, times 3G load factor to account for the jolt load after rolling the aircraft over a wrench on the hangar floor. (The wrench size must be 7/16", and it must be either an open end or box end wrench).

    Approved retail vendors for this rope will vary, and I am not sure whether the source in Australia will match the approved source in the USA. But the USA approved source has a name which rhymes with Home Creep-O.

    Install one screw eye in each wing root halfway between the front and rear spars.

    Install one screw eye in each side of the upper fuselage, halfway between the front and rear spar attach fittings.

    Tie a 6 inch diameter loop of rope (using the square knot) that passes through the wing root screw eye AND the fuselage screw eye. Repeat this on the other side of the aircraft, being sure to tie the square knot in the opposite direction (i. e. a left-right-left knot on the starboard side, and a right-left-right knot on the port side).

    Additional engineering analysis might be required for the direction of the knots on the Australian version, due to Coriolis Effect.

    Once the knot is done and it has been verified that the rope loop passes through both the fuselage eye and the wing root eye on each side, the wing folding mechanism is (finally, exhaustively) complete. You must have spent at least TEN minutes fabricating and installing this system in order for it to function correctly!

    To fold the wing on the RangerMax using this highly engineered fixture:

    (this assumes the wing spar front and rear bolts are oriented fore-aft, and are on the same axis)

    Remove the nuts and/or safety pins from all wing attach bolts or clevis pins at the strut and wing root.

    Remove the strut bolt/pin from the bottom of the wing, and put the wing tip on the ground (with a piece of foam or carpet to protect the wing).

    Walk over to the wing root, support the weight of the wing root with one hand, and remove the front and rear spar attach bolts/pins with the other hand.

    Allow the weight of the wing root to be supported by the rope loop.

    Walk back out to the wing tip, pick up the tip, and rotate the wing leading-edge-down.

    Walk the wing tip around toward the tail, and hang the wing on whatever fitting or support has been installed for storage.

    Remove the wing strut from the fuselage and store it with the aircraft as appropriate.

    Wipe the sweat and exhaustion away with a towel, and congratulate yourself on a job well done. This congratulatory process must be accomplished in my honor, using an Australian beer with VB printed on the bottle

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Victor Bravo; March 12th, 2019 at 07:36 PM.
    "Everything in this book may be wrong."
    Richard Bach, Illusions

    "Common sense is so rare today, it should be reclassified as a superpower!"
    Derswede


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