When did the EAA become money grubbing bullies?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by radfordc, Nov 30, 2019.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 2, 2019 #41

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    Problem is, EAA ain't gonna win this thing either. It was a bad move on their part. They have already lost in the court of public opinion. Of all of the things EAA needs to work on, this isn't in the top 100.

    Pelton should have reached out politely to the SOS brothers, offered to buy 'em a beer and a brat at the tent next July, and asked them, as a friend (who had no prior history with the SOS folks) if they would please refresh some of their stuff to look less like EAA logo's. That's it...
     
    Topaz likes this.
  2. Dec 2, 2019 #42

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,963
    Likes Received:
    5,577
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Actually, you're right about that. Both parties need to be a little more like mature adults in this case. Of course, we don't know if EAA did reach out and were rebuffed, but I suspect that whatever "reaching out" was probably more in the form of a cease-and-desist letter than, "hey, I'll buy a beer at your place and let's talk about something." The latter is not the Corporate Way.
     
  3. Dec 2, 2019 #43

    plncraze

    plncraze

    plncraze

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    358
    Any ideas on what Paul Poberezny would have done? My nostalgic view is he would have ignored it unless it got too stupid and then he would have publicly told them to grow up.
     
  4. Dec 2, 2019 #44

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,038
    Likes Received:
    6,793
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    IIRC, the owners of SOS were among those that lost their land to the EAA via eminent domain actions. Those laws, in theory, allow governments to take land from others if they can do it in the name of benefiting the public. In this case, it benefitted the EAA.

    If I were SOS, I would be so angry at the EAA that I would poke them in the eye at every opportunity.


    BJC
     
    Dana, gtae07, mcrae0104 and 3 others like this.
  5. Dec 2, 2019 #45

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,963
    Likes Received:
    5,577
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    He probably would've offered to take them flying, and discussed it over lunch afterwards. That's my impression of the man from the coverage I've seen.
     
  6. Dec 2, 2019 #46

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,963
    Likes Received:
    5,577
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    If that's what happened (I simply don't know about it, not questioning your assertion), then I'd likely feel the same way.
     
  7. Dec 3, 2019 #47

    plncraze

    plncraze

    plncraze

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    358
    One year at OSH Paul Poberezny went onstage at the Theater in the Woods, unscheduled, and said if you bring your kids and can't watch them then don't bring them. If that meant that the parents couldn't attend OSH so be it. The guys doing the MC'ing were stunned for a few seconds after that.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2019 #48

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,038
    Likes Received:
    6,793
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    I have no problem with that; in fact I strongly support it. I took my daughter and nieces many times when they were young.


    BJC
     
    akwrencher and Pops like this.
  9. Dec 3, 2019 #49

    12notes

    12notes

    12notes

    Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    549
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    People seem to be confusing trademark with copyright standards, and might want to look up strong parody rulings and the Anti-dilution trademark act of 1996 before stating that EAA's position is, in any way, legally weak. Fighting this is not a good idea for the brewery.
     
    Topaz likes this.
  10. Dec 3, 2019 #50

    pwood66889

    pwood66889

    pwood66889

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    Sopchoppy, Florida, USA
    Agree with all the above.
    However, there is the Federal Trademark Dilution Act of 1995. Quoting from "The Pirate's Guide..." (see my post, #7) that act "departed from established law, and accorded special status to 'famous' trademarks." Up to that time, if there was no "likelihood of confusion" then even very similar phrases could be used - and we have Apple Records (R) and Apple Computers (R) to this day.
    Thus the EAA is just using the gifts of The Best Legislature Money Can Buy.
    On the other hand, if the EAA is saying the 'venture' named for one of our favorite post-aviating beverages is causing actual harm then "We'll see ... in court."
    Hope to hear how this one comes out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  11. Dec 3, 2019 #51

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,542
    Likes Received:
    3,385
    Location:
    Mojave, Ca
    Isn't "Airventure" simply a play on the common "adventure"? How can EAA possibly trademark the second half of a common word?

    Anyway - EAA, an organization largely made up of dirty old beer guzzling men, is fighting an organization that has attractive college girls serving beer. This is a public relations nightmare for EAA. It would be quicker for EAA to change their logo and rename the event than fight this thing.

    Hell, I'm tempted to join EAA again just so I get the satisfaction of cancelling my membership.
     
  12. Dec 3, 2019 #52

    Pops

    Pops

    Pops

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    7,382
    Likes Received:
    6,342
    Location:
    USA.
    My 3 children grew up going to OSH each year. We would take a camper and stay the week as a family.
     
    Vigilant1 and BJC like this.
  13. Dec 3, 2019 #53

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,963
    Likes Received:
    5,577
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    Because "AirVenture" is identifiable trade dress for the annual EAA event, and only that event. It's actually one of the less-absurd trademarks I've seen. The test for infringement is simple and remarkably pragmatic, coming from a government/legal agency: Would the "average person" see the purportedly infringing mark as a clear derivative of the registered property? There's no "objective" test because how could you ever come up with one? Art and trade-dress is all subjective anyway.
     
    bmcj likes this.
  14. Dec 3, 2019 #54

    GeeZee

    GeeZee

    GeeZee

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2019
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    “Sounds like there's a wide-open space for a 'replacement' organization that sticks to its roots”
    It’s been tried, by Paul P himself. Seems that he agreed with most of what is being said here about what EAA has turned into. It was the Sport Aviation Association (SAA)
    They held several fly ins at Frasca Field (C16 - Urbana Illinois). It was so grass roots that Paul was working the food line - yep he served me a hot dog!
     
    Pops and Voidhawk9 like this.
  15. Dec 3, 2019 #55

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    To add detail (as I understand it), the government took the SOS land (which was much closer to "the show") for airport improvements, then basically turned the land over to EAA. There was a court case and a sizable settlement in favor of the SOS brothers. If they are anything like me, they are probably still chapped over it and relish poking the figurative bear any time they can.

    Pelton (or any of the new generation of grown-ups at EAA) could probably have diffused the situation by saying WTTE "We want the whole community to profit from this thing, including SOS. But can you help us out and use artwork that looks a little less like EAA's logo(s)?"
     
  16. Dec 3, 2019 #56

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    851
    Likes Received:
    474
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    As pointed out in a parallel thread in another forum, both BeerVenture and Kidventure (and maybe Airventure too) were used by non-EAA orginizations years before EAA's apparent first use. I'm no expert in copyright/trademark law, but I think that seriously diminishes any case EAA might have.
     
  17. Dec 3, 2019 #57

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Topaz

    Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    13,963
    Likes Received:
    5,577
    Location:
    Orange County, California
    It might. Or it might not. It'll be up to the court to decide.
     
  18. Dec 3, 2019 #58

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,410
    Likes Received:
    5,191
    Location:
    KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
    There's a strange balance that will be very hard to strike, but I am praying for it to be struck. I want EAA to return to its original founding principles, and put its members (and our right to fly and build and own an airplane) above all else, more or less like Pope Paul wanted it to be. I also want EAA to be a strong, well-funded, and politically powerful organization that can stop bad things from happening to the average airplane owner... airspace grabs, corporate ATC privatization, etc. I don't want a weak EAA that can be hustled or waylayed by a couple of guys with a beer truck.

    It's kind of like a labor union. Not exactly the same, but similar in one respect... The little guys really want to have a big tough street-fighting guy walking through the street next to you because you're tired of being stepped on. But then the big tough guy who is protecting you realizes that there's an opportunity for a very lucrative "protection racket". All of a sudden it gets pretty hard to disagree with the tough guy... who you thought was only looking out for your best interest.
     
  19. Dec 3, 2019 #59

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

    Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    4,243
    Likes Received:
    1,974
    Location:
    US
    I do think the lawsuit by EAA does more damage to the EAA brand than the SOS brothers have. And I'm not too happy that this is how EAA has chosen to spend my dues--paying lawyers and court costs.
    Yes, they need to protect their logo, but this is a very marginal case of infringement, if it qualifies at all.
    If they are awarded damages, I'd like to see EAA and the SOS Brothers jontly choose a charity and send the dough there. That will give them a chance to cooperate on something like adults, show that EAA didn't make any money with this lawsuit , and take some of the stink off this whole dumb issue.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
    Pops likes this.
  20. Dec 3, 2019 #60

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    6,410
    Likes Received:
    5,191
    Location:
    KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
    To quote the late great Jimmy Durante: "And Furthermore...!"

    With great embarrassment and chagrin, I have to retract my comments about beer bongs; Dana and a little help from Wikipedia set me straight. A beer bong is indeed a hose with a funnel, not beer-infused weed. My foggy memories from the 1970's have betrayed me. What's next... did Foghat break up or something?

    But... that beer bong funnel thing kinda looks like a good way to waterboard someone... Your average stupid frat boy wannabee or bumbling blonde bimbo could get a lung full of beer pretty easily, no?
     

Share This Page



arrow_white