When did the EAA become money grubbing bullies?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by radfordc, Nov 30, 2019.

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  1. Dec 2, 2019 #21

    BJC

    BJC

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    You, I remember the first tine that a trinket vendor (totally unrelated to anything to do with designing, building or flying HBA) was there. The beginning of the end.

    Pops, you have me in age and lives used up, but I have a lower EAA number.


    BJC
     
  2. Dec 2, 2019 #22

    N804RV

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    I’d bet the “Happy Bottom Riding Club” would’ve been declared off limits by the air force a long time ago. All the services have had (for awhile now) an official “zero tolerance” policy towards any social drinking that creates public attention.

    The stuff I used to do that I was never reprimanded for (that was actual pretty tame by the standards of the day) now would have me probably thrown out of the Navy.

    i miss the old days. Had a lot of fun. But, my liver has only survived because I had to change my behavior to match the times. I don’t like PC bs. But, there we are!
     
  3. Dec 2, 2019 #23

    Victor Bravo

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    dtnelson, back in the days of the club at Edwards, and those old black and white movies of drunk pilots in O clubs, aviation wasn't under public attack like it is today.

    The old newspaper reporters with the press passes sticking out of their fedora hat, the old powder flash bulbs, and the "brave flyboy" image of those days was all pro-aviation.

    Today
    we have "take-down journalism". 30 years of military aviator service can be rendered irrelevant after one Tailhook panty-affair. We have evening news reports of every aircraft crash from a Volksplane to an airliner, where the facts are skewed in order to create the biggest emotional response from the public. And we have politicians who latch onto these events to publicize themselves, and demonize private aviation as part of their public image.

    I'm not saying that there's no place for SOS, and I'm not even passing judgment on the public safety issue of a beer bong establishment.

    All I'm saying is that an aviation organization that has positioned itself at the forefront of the battle to keep aviation thriving should not be allowing beer bong type activities to become associated with its brand in any way. It's the wrong message for EAA, and you and me to allow to go uncorrected

    The land-grab, the money, the commerce, the free enterprise and fair competition... all that is a separate matter. I am disappointed with EAA's money-grubbing policies in many areas, but allowing anyone to leverage the EAA brand as part of smoking weed in public is way out of the acceptable range.

    If they changed their establishment's name to something that does not invoke or suggest any involvement with EAA, then it's free enterprise and free competition.
     
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  4. Dec 2, 2019 #24

    pictsidhe

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    SOS does not appear to be directly related to the EAA to me. It's various logos look like humorous ones by an unrelated business. Perhaps they are treading a little close to the line in legal terms. But they certainly don't look like official logos.
    The land grab is relevant. It has created an acrimonious atmosphere between the two parties. I have little doubt that the relationship would be in it's current state without it.
     
  5. Dec 2, 2019 #25

    Dana

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    The late great Jerry Pournelle talked about this.
    Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:

    First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

    Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

    The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.
     
  6. Dec 2, 2019 #26

    Victor Bravo

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    I meant that it is not relevant to why I would support or not support EAA's opposition of SOS. My support (and my ccomments above) are constrained to SOS "hinting at" the EAA's logo tied to something involving marijuana. That is something I have a zero tolerance level for. I hope I'm not appearing too prudish (hell I went to high school in the 1970's... in the Cocaine capitol of the world) but I really don't want there to be even a whiff of association between beer bongs or dope of any kind and aviation.
     
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  7. Dec 2, 2019 #27

    Dana

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    Who said anything about smoking weed? A "beer bong" is not weed related, it's just a way to drink beer really fast, though I confess it's more suited to a frat party than a fly-in.

    Beer and bikinis after the flying is done, otoh... bring it on!
     
  8. Dec 2, 2019 #28

    12notes

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    What I see is a company that has a possible trademark violation with their name which had been ignored for years make a logo that forced the EAA to defend the trademark. Seriously, what the hell did they think would happen if the copied their logo, too?

    If you're being allowed to fly under the radar, don't jump up and down waving a flag like an idiot. If they'd just kept the name and didn't push it, this wouldn't have happened, but I guess they had a stick and, from their perspective, the sleeping bear was just asking to be poked.
     
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  9. Dec 2, 2019 #29

    Victor Bravo

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    The only beer bong I ever knew about was a regular marijuana bong pipe filled with beer instead of water. If there is some other device that is now known as a "beer bong" that is not a liquid-filled smoking pipe, then I am completely ignorant of the latest cutting edge beer and/or weed consumption technology. Silly old me.

    So long as a bottle opener and a mug are still considered acceptable practice, I'll find a way to fit in with the younger crowd :)
     
  10. Dec 2, 2019 #30

    Topaz

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    This. I appreciate that they have a right to make business based on the proximity of the EAA event, and promote themselves for that, but adopting the clearly-derived logo as well as the name was just plain dumb. They pushed a good thing too far, and should not at all be surprised at the response from a large and bureaucratic organization like EAA has become. Any organization with a dedicated legal department is not one that you want to deliberately annoy.

    I don't at all like the pissing match that this has become, but it seems SOS isn't smart enough to gracefully back down now. They're not going to win this thing, so fighting it is as dumb as starting it in the first place. They ought to offer a retraction of the logo and name usage, and some reasonable settlement to the EAA so that the latter can claim a face-saving victory. Then SOS can just go back to making a bundle of money off the EAA event every year.

    YMMV, of course.
     
  11. Dec 2, 2019 #31

    cluttonfred

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    Some food for thought here....

    https://info.legalzoom.com/legality-parody-trade-name-23333.html

    I personally don't feel that the use of the name Beer Venture or the logo in the photo early in this thread pass beyond the level of parody. I don't think any reasonable person would understand "Beer Venture" as anything more than a play on words by the beer truck guys.

    If EAA is allowing beer to be sold by other vendors, these seems just like EAA going after a particular business because of prior bad blood.
     
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  12. Dec 2, 2019 #32

    Dana

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_bong
     
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  13. Dec 2, 2019 #33

    radfordc

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    I don't know about that...if it goes to a jury trial and if anyone on the jury is the least bit like me they will win in a walk.
     
  14. Dec 2, 2019 #34

    radfordc

    radfordc

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    Here is the level of perversity that is going on at SOS....

    You will see more skin inside the grounds of the event.

    SOS.jpg
     
  15. Dec 2, 2019 #35

    pictsidhe

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    So, the next step will be requiring everyone attending osh to be in formal attire?
     
  16. Dec 2, 2019 #36

    BBerson

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    image.png I think the Beer "Garden" was the main event at Arlington Fly-in. I imagine Airventure has one also.
     
  17. Dec 2, 2019 #37

    pictsidhe

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    Re modern media. It trieds to make every story as awful as possible. It works, people are now very scared of things that are less common than when they weren't preoccupying people... Aviation is not 'special' here. I stopped buying newspapers over 30 years ago after some seriously bad behaviour by the British press. I seriously doubt that it has improved greatly despite the public kickback. I can rant at great length on this topic, but that's not a subject for HBA.
     
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  18. Dec 2, 2019 #38

    Aviacs

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    whoo boy.
    Since they moved out of Hales Corners, probably. That's about when it stopped feeling family/member oriented.
    They will send their emissaries and promotional materials when they want something (sell rides on their various airplanes), and leave you in the lurch with no support when it is more convenient for them. All the chapters that had flying airplanes for their members. Including us. That they would isolate and pick away at, then remove your charter. OK, i sort of get it. But if you were ever subject to any of it, their methods/attitudes tend to be brutal.
     
  19. Dec 2, 2019 #39

    cluttonfred

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    And this from an organization that is supposed to be an association in support of the members...don't get me started.
     
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  20. Dec 2, 2019 #40

    Voidhawk9

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    Sounds like there's a wide-open space for a 'replacement' organization that sticks to its roots.
    I keep on heariong more and more people and groups avoiding EAA events. It ain't what it used to be, huh?
    I don't have much of an opinion myself directly, having only attended once (something to do with being on the other side of the world).
    I attended the biggest air show in this part of the world about 3 years ago, and was greatly disappointed to find almost no aviation related vendors, but lots of options for (non-aviation) hats, fragances, and the like. Haven't been back again yet. Can't even get that close to many of the aircraft anyway.
     

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