What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastures?

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by Timstertimster, May 25, 2015.

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  1. May 25, 2015 #1

    Timstertimster

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    Okay, first cue the snarky comments about running over cows while landing on pastures...

    But seriously, last time I was in Bavaria, I saw a number of little planes, a few trikes, and kept thinking "aw man... I wanna do that"

    My impression is that USA has a more lenient attitude in the FAA regulations. Fly out of some Midwest farm land, putter on out to Florida, and land someplace you deem suitable and nobody seems to be getting their panties in a wad over it.

    Stuff I hear about Europe is that its supposedly more uptight. Is that indeed true? It sure didn't look that way last summer...

    Do pilots have to land on designated airstrips no matter what? I just love the idea of just going up, across, and down without worrying about a thing (except gravity of course).
     
  2. May 26, 2015 #2

    Aerowerx

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    I really don't know the legalities, but I would guess it would be a very good idea to get permission of the land owner.
     
  3. May 26, 2015 #3

    PTAirco

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    People in Britain use farmers' fields all the time, but with permission of course. Many clubs and groups are based on regular fields, as in agricultural fields. Same with Germany. It all depends on the owner; if you dropped in announced, for some reason such as a precautionary landing, nobody would get up in arms about that. Most would be quite interested. Doesn't mean you have any kind of rights to do so, and if you do upset somebody, they can probably give you all kinds of hassle. I just haven't heard it happening a lot when I lived there. Gliders in particular are often landed in fields and nobody thinks anything of it.
     
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  4. May 26, 2015 #4

    clanon

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    I think you'll get free cheese and bread ...mostly.
     
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  5. May 26, 2015 #5

    don january

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    I would guess it would be about the same as flying the hood around here in the US and landing in some fella's pasture. First the owner would come out and see if the plane was ok, and if that was good he may start looking for his daughter or wife, and at that time I hope he does'nt have his shotgun with him :nervous:
     
  6. May 26, 2015 #6

    mcrae0104

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu


    Bob Hoover has a good story or two along those lines.
     
  7. May 26, 2015 #7

    clanon

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    Exupéry , has some inspiring stories about emergency landings around here...
     
  8. May 26, 2015 #8

    Pops

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    A friend of mine was ferrying a Baby Ace across the U.S. with a Cont- C-85 engine, no electrical system and just a 12 gal fuel tank. Was in the middle of Iowa, getting dark, head winds picking up, not enough fuel to get to an airport. Landing on a gravel road and taxied about a mile down the road to a farm house and taxied up the driveway to the barn. Man and wife came out and invited him for supper and to stay the night. The next morning they filled his fuel tank up and drove down the road to stop any cars so he could take off on the gravel road safety. Nice people.
    This is the same Baby Ace.
    BARNSTORMERS.COM Find Aircraft & Aircraft Parts - Airplane Sale, Jets, Helicopters, Experimental, Warbirds & Homebuilt
    Dan
     
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  9. May 26, 2015 #9

    pictsidhe

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    As a Brit myself: PT summed it up well. Get permission first if you plan to land somewhere. If unplanned, be polite and you'll be fine. If you land in field, the farmer is quite likely to help you. He will likely prefer to do that than have other vehicles driving around his field. Offer him money if he drags you out. Flatten a swathe of crop and he is going to be annoyed by default, open your wallet wide...
     
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  10. May 26, 2015 #10

    bmcj

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    I've posted this in other threads, but it seems rather appropriate here:

     
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  11. May 26, 2015 #11

    4trade

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    Finland is bush country and you can fly with any land with land owner permission and you can use almost all 187 000 lakes without permission.
     
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  12. May 26, 2015 #12

    Pops

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    That is great. One of my neighbors has stopped there with his Pietenpol.

    My oldest grandson spent 3 summers starting when he was 15 years old barnstorming over the eastern U.S with one of my neighbor in his Stearman. He is now 28 years old has 7 type rating and flys a Cessna Citation X for a living. Didn't like the airlines.

    Dan
     
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  13. May 27, 2015 #13

    DangerZone

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    Yes, in most countries, EASA regulations and national laws are quite strict. Some vary depending on the class and cathegory of airplane or national airspace, but more or less landing outside of a designated airfield with a certified aircraft might bring you lots of problems. Ultralights are a bit easier cause their stall speeds are lower and they usually often do fly outside airports. Microlights, trikes, paramotors&parawings and other sorts of aircraft are permitted in G space up to 1000ft AGL. Beyond that, no go. A friend of mine is always cursing when we fly around and spot them miles away with their tiny little parafoils on a path. And if they use some other local frequency they can sometimes pass unnoticed.

    Some countries are quite liberal and don't see that as a problem. For instance, Czech, France, Italy, Slovenia and most Baltic or Scandinavian countries are more liberal. Others vary, in some countries landing outside of airports can be considered as an accident by the local Civil Aviation Agency or some other similar taxsucking/goodfornothing institution. This means they would ensure to file a lawsuit and chase you down to court so you'd pay a fine to the freaking authorities. The problem with these institutions is that they are filled with incompetent non-pilot personnel who onky follow EASA regulations blindly even though they have absolutely no clue about what they are doing. Bavaria is a part of Germany which is neutral and well developed so they have good laws and flying there is allowed without too much hassle like in some other states.

    Many EU countries started imposing laws onto drones lately, a few have such strict laws that even flying a big size drone should be reported to Information or local ATC. The problem is that sooner or later most EU members will make landings outside of airports illegal. That's why homebuilding and building the experimental class is slowly regaining popularity with new generations. I'm totally into this idea because some latest idiotic changes imposed by EASA are simply too stupid to be true. Thus balancing between contacting Info while flying on a route across country and flying for fun landing on farm strips should be up to the pilot to decide, not only the authorities.
     
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  14. May 27, 2015 #14

    PTAirco

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    In most Western European you can fly your homebuilt or microlight pretty much the same as you could any other GA aircraft. Can't speak about eastern Europe. Most countries have reciprocal agreements and if you need permission, it's just a routine paper exercise. All the different countries still have different rules, despite the EU's efforts to streamline them; no two are the same when it comes to homebuilts and microlight/ultralights. For example, in Germany where you'd expect the strictest rules, you can actually build a two seat microlight, go land in somebody's pasture (with permission, of course...) and sell joyrides! Legally! Just like in 1920s America. Try doing that in the US or Britain or Australia now. No commercial license of any kind. I spent half my youth trying to find a single place in the world where I could do this legally (I still have folders of legal stuff about this) and was frustrated at every turn. Ironically I could have done it in the country where I was born...go figure.
     
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  15. May 27, 2015 #15

    DangerZone

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    It ain't that simple, east&west. Try doing the same thing in Belgium or Spain and you might be surprised. This is one of the reasons why Belgians often register their airplanes in France, because the administration is more flexible. And in France you can land at any field just like in the Czech republic or Hungary, which were/are Eastern Europe. Then again, Germany was Eastern Europe before (remember Berlin, the Wall, communism and all that jazz over there?) and this might be one of the reasons why the administration is really making an effort to provide a certain level of freedom to Microlights and Ultralights. In fact, you are right that a lot of good legislation is coming from Germany, because they invest a lot in light aviation development.

    The American legislation is much better than any European system, you have the liberty to even send rockets into the stratosphere. Try that in Europe and you'd be arrested for terrorism, your aircraft confiscated, and issued a fine you wouldn't recover from easily. You might face similar problems if accidently flying in controlled airspace with a small microlight from country to country if some newbie or EU administrator wannabe sees you as an administration problem. The good thing is the Scengen area, if one would fly pretty low (1000ft AGL) then it could be freedom to fly and land anywhere you want, as long as the authorities don't get involved or know about you.

    The best thing is that certified N registered aircraft in the EU have less problems than EU ones. It's ironic that EASA is working on making life uneasy for GA aircraft whose owners pay more and register in EU countries. Thus flying with an N registered aircraft in the EU would be much easier and cheaper. The only problem might be the language. Even though English is the official aviation language, in countries where the laws are best/easiest for free flying, pilots usually speak only the local language. For example, France, Italy, the Czech Republic and Hungary are very liberal about flying but don't be surprised if you are head on with some aircraft and can't understand a word the pilot over there is telling you. Just saying. :)
     
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  16. May 27, 2015 #16

    Himat

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    It ain't that simple, and for sure there are differences between the countries in Europe. And within each country probably different quirks. Like in Norway, you are allowed to land with an airplane in a farmers field provided that you have the landowners permission. Still there is a cap on weekly, monthly and yearly airplane movements. The same goes for helicopters, something that have made noise when owners of seafront summer residents land with a helicopter in the garden. This do not always please the neighbors.

    Then, if an area is considered "wilderness" there is a law about use of motorized vehicles off road in Norway that pretty much forbid landing a plane or helicopter!
    The twist is then that landing an airplane in a field or helicopter in the garden is ok in a built up area as long as it is not within a restricted airspace. Landing in the "wilderness" is not allowed. A lake in the wilderness fall under the same law, no landings. Salt water? Land and taxi into town.

    As for launching a space craft, twelve nautical miles of the coast and you are in international waters. From land I don't know, it might be possible.
     
  17. May 27, 2015 #17

    Dana

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    In the US, though air law is federal and the same everywhere, as soon as you touch the ground you're subject to state and local laws, where it varies between "do whatever you want" to "absolutely forbidden unless on a licensed airport." Most states are somewhere in between.

    Dana
     
  18. May 27, 2015 #18

    DangerZone

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    I know what you mean, the same thing happened here in our part of Europe. Before, most of the off airfield landings were either unregulated or not sanctioned by the authorities. In the end, who cares if one lands somewhere on some private land if it does not disturb anyone? It's been so from after WWII until EASA was formed and started to 'regulate' with some new EU regulations. The problem is that these agencies have nothing to do, so they invent jobs. They create problems where there are none, and most of them aren't pilots and have no clue about flying. They WILL 'regulate' more and more and up to a point when we will all be flying illegaly cause it won't be possible to comply to all the nonsense they make up just to justify 'they are doing something after all'. Plus the local Civil Aviation authorites are even worse in some countries, they try to ease their jobs by making life as hard as possible if you want to fly. All in the name of 'safety', like nobody knew how to take care to fly safe before they started doing their crap.

    I have a friend working in Norway, he's an electric engineer working on power lines. They have a 'chauffeur', a chopper pilot who installs heavy weights on highly elevated places. Once the authorites forbid him flying (they declared a no fly zone due to bad weather) to get the crew caught up in the mountains cause a windstorm was risin. Yet this Norwegian was so proud he could not leave people in the cold winter night at temperatures far below zero and probably find them brick frozen the next day. He risked 'safety' and got people back, and was quite harsh on the authorities who were trying to give him hell that he was 'endangering safety'. It is sometimes ridiculous what this EASA administration has produced, and the amount of idiocy od some of the administrators. Apparently they think it seems more reasonable to let people dye rather than be rational and understand that laws are made to serve and protect us and not the other way around.

    Yeah, launching a space craft is easier close to international waters, that is the benefit of small sea-side countries. Oh, and a Swiss company is apparently gonna invest into a local airport and make the first private/tourist space center in Europe in Udbina. So even though this is not good news for ecology of my country becuase such companies are usually just a front for toxic/radioactive waste disposal, it might help in the 'regulation' so that it becomes easier to get the permit to launch as an experimental. There was a guy who was fighting for years to get all the paperwork done so he could do usual seaplane passanger charter, and I am so glad he finally managed to win and form the European Coastal Airlines. This is a commercial and I have no connections to the company but I am glad the owner finally made it after years of fighting both the EASA and the local authorities to get the airline running.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th4MhBS1BZA

    Now, if it is that hard to make a simple seaplane company work, how do you suppose it would be to try launching an experimental homebuilt spacecraft with an experimental rocket engine? It's rhetoric, of course. :)
     
  19. May 27, 2015 #19

    TFF

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu

    The more socialist the country, the less wiggle room. Spain or Italy are countries of do it, but be able to talk your way out. People involved want a good story out of it. If you are an intruder, which you are, make it fun for them. Start reeling of rules is a sure way to make them find better ones.
     
  20. Jun 3, 2015 #20

    Timstertimster

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    Re: What happens in Europe if you just fly your LSA around the hood and land on pastu



    Unlike Americans, Europeans do *not* have a constitutional right to bear fire arms. So I'm not worried about looking at the wrong end of a twelve gauge barrel.
     

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