What could be done to reinvent the Affordaplane to a more homogeneous project?

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

wingnutzster

New Member
I'm finally about to get my A-Plane started, I purchased the plans almost as quickly as Dave published them and later bought the updated version, I actually started the build some time ago but building other folk's kit airplanes and working on my own design, and life got in the way and many of the original parts and hardware was either used or disappeared, but now I am ready to start again and possibly build without pause this time. I have several modifications in cosmetics and structure with backcountry flying in mind since the terrain here is mostly rough and unprepared. I am still happy with a single seat since there is no one I care to be sitting behind me in this type of flying.

Basically I have revised the airfoil and thickness of the wing as well as the structure through redesign utilizing composite construction, the wingspan increases by 15%, some of that is carbon wingtips.
*I have redesigned Avid Flyer style flaperons and linkages, carbon not metal.
*We want to do CFD testing on a fixed slat, full span and 3/4 span.
*I have slightly revised the empennage aesthetically and control surfaces will be balanced.
*The 'cabin' will be a partially enclosed composite structure with a full cowl for either the:
*Vittorazzi 50hp and E prop or I already have two Cayuna 430 engines from my Eagle XCR that could work well with upgrades and fixed pitch wood props.
*I have access to a DRS recovery system for a Quicksilver or Challenger class ultralight that we want to test and fit
*I want to redesign the main gear with shocks with around 8" of travel that are actually very light and tundra style tyres and a simple braking system adapted from the Eagle.

The drafts drawings have been done as well as much of the maths (including cost) and I am very pleased with the direction this is going and obviously excited to get started. Besides being unique and tailored to my exacting aesthetic I want something that is rough and ready that turns heads, something I would be proud to have in the hangar, not just the cheapest airplane I can build, for the ultimate cost I could look at more refined aircraft yes but I always loved the A-plane and it is an important life ambition that I build and fly it, in these crazy times it's become even more important to me so here I go. We are also developing a foot-launched rigid wing glider that is hyper light and the A-Plane would serve as a great tug platform for testing.

Does anyone have an accurate 3D structural model of the A-plane I can use?

Armilite

Well-Known Member
just what is the A planes safety record . to hear some of you gentlemen speak of it you would think it would be raining A Planes from the heavens . The owners / builders seem to think quite highly of them .
==================

Go to the FAA Website and search for Affordaplane Accidents. The vast majority of all Aiplane Accidents are Human related, not structural. Same for Engine Failures, most are Human related!

Armilite

Well-Known Member
Does there exist any pictures or videos of an ultralight flying with a gx390 or clone?
=======================

All of these Honda/Clone Singles are based on the same Design! You have the Small Block version that goes up to the GX170, then Scaled up to the Big Block version that starts at the GX340/GX390. They just change the Bores & Strokes! The Big Blocks are based off the GX390 and can go up to +12mm (100mm x 86.5mm) 679.6cc!

Lazair Ultralight with a pair of Clone GX200's upgraded to 15hp each.

Paramotor Trike........chinese clone of a honda gx390 engine.

While there are many variables for making hp, from Carb Size, CR used, CAM Lift, Valve Sizes, Porting!

A GX200 DYNO PRINT making 21.22hp@5800rpm! The Lazair has an MTOW of 450 lbs = 204.1166 kg / 10 kg = 20.41166 kw needed = 27.37249 hp! 27.37249 hp / 2 = 13.7 hp each needed! This Engine makes 14.19hp@4200rpm, makes 15.2hp@4400rpm. Now this Engine is using 12.5cr, and for Plane use, I would drop it to 11.0cr, and detune it to 5000rpm for Plane use and you would lose probably 1.5hp for CR Change, so at 5000rpm it shows 17.83hp - 1.5hp = 16.33hp. Drop it to 10.0cr and you would have around 15.3 hp Engine.

A GX420 DYNO PRINT making 34.83hp@5760rpm. Notice it was making 33.4hp@5000rpm! They don't show any of the Specs, CR, CAM they used, or other Specs other than they used a 34mm Carb.

Attachments

• 119.7 KB Views: 1
• 40 KB Views: 3
Last edited:

galapoola

Well-Known Member
Asthetically, I'm not a fan of a fabric covered wing leading edge that dips down between the ribs. I've seen some designs that use the short ribs between full ribs to smooth things out. Then there's the ply or aluminum sheet steamed/folded over the D to smooth the fabric out. Both solutions would add weight. Anyone use a leading edge solution to pretty up the wing?

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Asthetically, I'm not a fan of a fabric covered wing leading edge that dips down between the ribs. I've seen some designs that use the short ribs between full ribs to smooth things out.
Agree. Airplanes are similar to another addiction in that, in addition to being functional, they should be pretty.

BJC

ElectricFlyer

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I would like to see an updated design of the A-Plane as a pusher with folding wings. Can we not be affordable and up to date?
Cheers

allonsye

Member
As a high wing you at least don’t have to look at it when you fly...
My high (under-cambered) wing has v/g's under the leading edge making it even more unattractive, but the faster 10 - 15 mph faster airspeed yield makes being unattractive somewhat more attractive.

cloudopr

Member
I would like to see an updated design of the A-Plane as a pusher with folding wings. Can we not be affordable and up to date?
Cheers
I built an Affordaplane. I would love to be able to fold the wings on it. I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried to come up a folding wing for the Affordaplane?

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
My high (under-cambered) wing has v/g's under the leading edge making it even more unattractive, but the faster 10 - 15 mph faster airspeed yield makes being unattractive somewhat more attractive.
What airplane?

BJC

erkki67

Well-Known Member
I would like to see an updated design of the A-Plane as a pusher with folding wings. Can we not be affordable and up to date?
Cheers

a mister named Daniel Dalby, came up with this idea. Please check how the rolling is achieved.

Aerowerx

Well-Known Member
View attachment 109836
a mister named Daniel Dalby, came up with this idea. Please check how the rolling is achieved.
I see a couple of problems with this.

First, the two square frames---under the wing and at the tail. Squares are inherently flimsy. Add a diagonal at each place to form triangles. MUCH stiffer with minimal addition of weight.

Also, just how still is that tail boom?

 I meant how STIFF is that tail boom.

Last edited:

galapoola

Well-Known Member
I built an Affordaplane. I would love to be able to fold the wings on it. I was just wondering if anyone has ever tried to come up a folding wing for the Affordaplane?
The Legal Eagle now has a wing fold option. It’s a pull and twist so the wings lay flat against the fuselage. I watched the videos. Nice design. I asked quite a few people about parasol folders and they all said no or couldn’t be done. The AF could probably adapt that design.

Armilite

Well-Known Member
View attachment 109836
a mister named Daniel Dalby, came up with this idea. Please check how the rolling is achieved.
========================================

While I prefer a Pusher myself. This Design looks Weak with only one Spar. People having access to 750+ different Designs for the last 40+ Years have gotten by without a Foldable Wing. Hanger Rent isn't that expensive $75 to$125 and most people that are serious about Flying, have either an Ultralight or Small Kitplane that doesn't need that Long of Runway, so they fly out of their own Acreage and have a Hanger there. I would bet the people who Trailer their Plane with a Foldable Wing, Fly less, account it usually takes two People to Fold and Put back up. Per Kitplane magazine the National Avg for an Ultralight Pilot is 50hrs a Year. That Design above also doesn't offer any Safety for the Pilot. No Place to mount a Windshield. Winter Flying is out! I do like the better Landing Gear! Just my 2 cents!

erkki67

Well-Known Member
========================================

While I prefer a Pusher myself. This Design looks Weak with only one Spar. People having access to 750+ different Designs for the last 40+ Years have gotten by without a Foldable Wing. Hanger Rent isn't that expensive $75 to$125 and most people that are serious about Flying, have either an Ultralight or Small Kitplane that doesn't need that Long of Runway, so they fly out of their own Acreage and have a Hanger there. I would bet the people who Trailer their Plane with a Foldable Wing, Fly less, account it usually takes two People to Fold and Put back up. Per Kitplane magazine the National Avg for an Ultralight Pilot is 50hrs a Year. That Design above also doesn't offer any Safety for the Pilot. No Place to mount a Windshield. Winter Flying is out! I do like the better Landing Gear! Just my 2 cents!
Where I live you tripple the rents, then it make sense to have folding or detachable.

ElectricFlyer

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Rent isn't that expensive $75 to$125 and most people that are serious about Flying,
Thats great for your area i guess -- Here in Toronto Canada area we can pay 150 a month just to trailer to a runway and use it.
Jokingly, why is it that is it always the "serious flyers" that money never seems to be an issue. I would think they need to be rebranded as:
lucky flyers
I got a really good high paying job flyers
I buy a new truck every 2 yrs flyers
I inherited money flyers.

For some of us, that 125/mth 1500/yr, might need to put towards many other things in life and still fly. Is that not why we are also here on this site, money is tight but we still want to participate in the dream of flying.

Cheers to all

challenger_II

Well-Known Member
EF: Some folks you pay heed to, others you take what they say with a grain of salt. At the end of the day, One has to build/buy to suit their specific needs.

For painless folding wings, the Kolb system is hard to beat: simple, easy, and a one-man job.