What could be done to reinvent the Affordaplane to a more homogeneous project?

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TLAR

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Sep 29, 2020
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319
When I first started learning about home built aircraft, it was so easy to criticize the design, and I still do. I keep my criticism to my self.
Lots of criticisms here on HBA.
Most of the guilty have never designed any aircraft!
Design an aircraft and show it off here on HBA. You will certainly be mad when you do!
Always someone smarter, always a better way. Lmao
 

challenger_II

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Jul 15, 2009
Messages
337
Location
Fisher County, Tx. USA
You must have been a carpenter in a former life: you be good at hitting the nail on the head, first time. :)

There's an old saying: "If it is a stupid idea, and it works, then it ain't stupid!"

When I first started learning about home built aircraft, it was so easy to criticize the design, and I still do. I keep my criticism to my self.
Lots of criticisms here on HBA.
Most of the guilty have never designed any aircraft!
Design an aircraft and show it off here on HBA. You will certainly be mad when you do!
Always someone smarter, always a better way. Lmao
 

erkki67

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Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
2,493
Location
Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
Correct rivets are probably more expensive than the bolts by a factor of 100, and require tools that are way more expensive than a wrench. I am assuming direct one for one substitute.

A regular Cherry is $2 a rivet or more. A really special one might be$15 for one. You can get a lot of AN3 bolts for $15. You can get a lot lot more grade 5 bolts. Drilling the holes are going to be about the same effort, done correctly.

Redesigned will take a lot of effort unless it’s a shotgun approach. Start taking the cheap out and it’s not cheap.
No one says that you must use aircraft grade rivets for the price of a condo.
there are many high resistance and vibration resistant rivets out there, that are perfect for such a construction-
 

Fiberglassworker

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Joined
May 28, 2021
Messages
28
For non certified aircraft. there is a commercial locking rivet by Cherry called the Cherry Q rivet. They vary in price from $0,25 to $ 0.67 each depending on size and quantity, they are similar in design to a pop rivet except the stem locks in. Originally designed for trailers in the trucking industry.
 

pilotarix

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Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
44
Location
Hummelstown, PA
Hi

Thanks for your response. I got some more information about riveting the whole thing. There is one guy that used rivets on his A-Plane. Here is his video
He used stainless steel rivets 3/16 which would not be my first choice. Definitely not. I am not an enginieer of any kind, but based on some common sense I would assume that the rivets used in such a project should safely retain their lock bolts to maintain their shear strength. This is the case with CherryMax and CherryLock rivets. They are also available for the material thickness. At least the CherryLock rivets seem to require a special tool to set them correctly. These tools are not cheap, they are indeed very expensive. However, they should have the strength to hold a project like this together. One problem for the unexperienced builder will be to figure out the correct amount and spacing of rivets on the gussets. One row or two rows and the like.

Maybe to much to do ...
 

challenger_II

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Messages
337
Location
Fisher County, Tx. USA
One can obtain stainless BSPQ rivets commercially, that have stainless stems, and the stub is retained in the rivet body. Many of the current ultralight aircraft kits use these rivets. You can easily find the shear, and tensile, load information of the rivets. On key item is to ensure you (a) have a long enough "grip" for the two metal thicknesses, and to (b) have adequate metal thicknesses to not tear, or deform, allowing the riveted joint to fail.
 

Fiberglassworker

Active Member
Joined
May 28, 2021
Messages
28
Hi

Thanks for your response. I got some more information about riveting the whole thing. There is one guy that used rivets on his A-Plane. Here is his video
He used stainless steel rivets 3/16 which would not be my first choice. Definitely not. I am not an enginieer of any kind, but based on some common sense I would assume that the rivets used in such a project should safely retain their lock bolts to maintain their shear strength. This is the case with CherryMax and CherryLock rivets. They are also available for the material thickness. At least the CherryLock rivets seem to require a special tool to set them correctly. These tools are not cheap, they are indeed very expensive. However, they should have the strength to hold a project like this together. One problem for the unexperienced builder will be to figure out the correct amount and spacing of rivets on the gussets. One row or two rows and the like.

Maybe to much to do ...
Correct the Cherry lock rivets require a double action tool to set the locking collar. The Cherry max rivets on the other hand can be set with an ordinary Pop riveter in the smaller sizes, the bigger ones require an air operated or hydraulic riveter.
 

GeeZee

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Feb 25, 2019
Messages
161
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Some of the better quality hand riveters advertise that they will pull Cherry Max rivets. I think ATS and of course Amazon sells them.
 

pilotarix

Active Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
44
Location
Hummelstown, PA
Hi all,

Thanks for the input.

I went on and ordered some CherryMax rivets at aircraft spruce. I do have a pneumatic riveter, but that will unlikely pull these rivets, so I also ordered a hand riveter capable of doing CherryMax rivets.
The rivets I ordered have the appropriate length for the intended job, which is fastening two sheets of 1/8 thick aluminum together. Hence their grip length needs to be 0.250". That is easy to figure out.
What is more difficult to figure out is the correct diameter of the rivet. There seems to be a rule for solid rivets - the diameter of the rivet should be at least 3 times the thickness of the sheet that will be riveted. I could not find anything like that for pop rivets.
Also, there is information for pitch spacing and edge distance published, but again for solid rivets in structural applications. Unfortunately, I cannot find any information in that regard for pop rivets.
Is it safe to assume that that is the same with pop rivets?
At least for the diameter, that would make a very big pop rivet in my case. The sheet thickness is 1/8, 3 x1/8 = 3/8 = 0.375" (9.52 mm), that's would be a big rivet to pull. Unlikely.
Anyhow, if somebody knows where to read about or get more information about pop rivets in structural aviation applications, please let me know.
BTW, the CherryMAX rivets, which I think, might be the correct ones to use, have a shear strength of about 1000 lbs.
 

challenger_II

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Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
337
Location
Fisher County, Tx. USA
One suggestion is to find the shear strength of your particular rivet. Determine how many rivets you will have per cluster. This, plus the shear strength of the material you are riveting, will put you in the ball park of how much shear stress your cluster will withstand.
 
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