# What could be done to reinvent the Affordaplane to a more homogeneous project?

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#### Mohawk750

##### Well-Known Member
Thank you for your input. The diagonal ribbon bracing is typical for stick built and aluminum wing rib construction as well so not unique to the thermo formed ribs. Glad to heat that these rib have stood the test of time as well.

#### galaxy engineer

##### Member
You know...All said and done (and I know the Affordaplane has its fans and anti-fans) but the concept actually has its place in the building community. Is it the perfect airplane? No. Is it the best airplane choice for a beginner builder? Mmmmaybe (but not definitely). Is it the safest airplane? No. Best design? No. What airplane can answer YES to any of these questions though?!

Sooooooo where is its place in our community? Well if you ever ordered the $20 plans and looked at them they contain so much information and articles on construction of aluminum and hardware that in no way is specific to the Affordaplane but general to all construction. That is worth the 20 bucks alone. I learned a ton just from this purchase. Then the rabbit hole of research that follows is another ton of education. In my quest to find an affordable, safe project, it has me researching everything and trying to balance Time/Quality/Money. Yes I ordered the plans 20 years ago! No, I have not even started construction yet. I did spend another$20 a couple of years ago an on updated set of plans. Dave probably would have sent me an updated set but at \$20 it is hardly worth the ask in the big scheme of all things home built.

Do I plan to build An airplane? Yes, most definitely YES! Will I build the Affordaplane? I still don't know but it IS top of my list. Why you ask...because it is a stupid easy to build, modifiable, repairable, rugged, stupid cheap, flying concept of an aircraft that will fly with a wide range of motors. It is a great test bed for wings and motors if you wished. The only skill I will actually have to learn is how to build a flat and level building table and that is not a cosmic endeavor.

The Affordaplane reminds me of military aircraft of witch I flew in the USAF for 20 years...Rugged, Repairable, Mission oriented!....but most of all... no matter how sleek or ugly... it is LOVED by her crews and hated by the enemy.
N'uff said.
Brett

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#### erkki67

##### Well-Known Member
Could have been my thoughts

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The original purpose of this thread was identifying what can be done to this basic design to bring it closer to ideal, and further away from the things that made it questionable. Substituting bent aluminum C-channels instead of thick-wall and heavy extrusions is one of those things that would make it more "airplane-ish" and less "Hillbilly-ish" Substituting blind rivets for some of the bolts holding the fuselage together will help. Using a more traditional old-school ultralight aluminum tube "ladder" wing construction will help.

All of these things can be done without abandoning the basic configuration and style of the Affordaplane.

#### galaxy engineer

##### Member
The original purpose of this thread was identifying what can be done to this basic design to bring it closer to ideal, and further away from the things that made it questionable. Substituting bent aluminum C-channels instead of thick-wall and heavy extrusions is one of those things that would make it more "airplane-ish" and less "Hillbilly-ish" Substituting blind rivets for some of the bolts holding the fuselage together will help. Using a more traditional old-school ultralight aluminum tube "ladder" wing construction will help.

All of these things can be done without abandoning the basic configuration and style of the Affordaplane.
EXACTLY....It is the thing I like most about the Affordaplane...It is easily configurable to all types of personalities and flying types. It is such a great example of what can be done in a garage with vision and a hacksaw (no welded required...haha). I have been reading every word of this thread and even started on your "Ranger" thread. I am loving that concept as well. I also love your description of "Hillbilly"! LMAO! To be honest I kinda like the controversy that surrounds the little erector set of an aircraft we call the Affordaplane! Makes me want to build it even more and add my personality to it as I go. I lay awake at night thinking about how to improve the plane but the more I do the more I see the reasons why Dave landed on the design he did. Either ease of construction, stock availability or its lengths, etc etc. I'm with you VB and Erkki....I have been wondering how to get the hillbilly stank off it as well.

#### TLAR

##### Banned
Mr C5A
Have a look at the Cubchel

#### galaxy engineer

##### Member
Y
Mr C5A
Have a look at the Cubchel
Yes I have seen this. It seems to have a lot in common with the AP. It is hard to tell from the flying videos but it doesn't look much lighter than the AP with the same style construction tech. I wonder how it flys?

#### TLAR

##### Banned
Pilot reports are kinda slim, I have the plans but tube sizes are not available in the US, but an easy work around

#### erkki67

##### Well-Known Member
we have the same problem here with the US tubing sizes, available yes, but it would turn the AP into a nonaffordaplane.

#### Robert Dingus

##### Well-Known Member
All i went through this exercise several years ago, with the one i built. i went so far as doing the Stress Analysis, on it, and it comes out at a 8 G plane with the materials selected and used in the fuselage alone. if you can get .0625 wall 2 x 2 aluminum and resize the other tubes accordingly, you can shave more that 40 pounds off the basic frame alone.
go the route of rivets instead of bolts on the non critical connection points, and shave a few more pounds.

if you want to see the results send me a private note and can share with you what i did, for the analysis.

Robert

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
This discussion has gone on so long and has become enough of a Jerry Springer Show episode, that I may have forgotten if this particular idea was ever pursued. Forgive me if this is "old news":

In the USA and probably other countries, 6061-T6 seamless round tubes are available very inexpensively and in numerous sizes. Substituting appropriate round tubes, using well-designed gussets on both sides of the joints, and using an appropriate number of good stainless Avdel/Avex blind rivets, is likely to yield a proper fuselage truss. It would be easy enough for any decent engineer to do the truss analysis and free-body diagrams and fastener loads and all that on this type of structure. Being able to choose from several different sizes and wall thicknesses of tube would allow someone to tailor the structure for the loads by having telescopic insert sleeves or different wall thickness where appropriate.

Is this not feasible for some reason? Would this not save 10-20 pounds of weight? Would this not make the aircraft look and feel a lot more "airplane-ish"?

#### EzyBuildWing

##### Well-Known Member
Watch this vid..... isn't this the way you'd like to fly.....?
Simple welded-tube, plus some folded riveted aluminium-sheet..... and a 250 Polini.....

#### erkki67

##### Well-Known Member
Wit the engine up in front, yep!

#### erkki67

##### Well-Known Member
With this layout and landing gear arrangements, the Affordaplane or AffordaCub would be viable.

#### Armilite

##### Well-Known Member
With this layout and landing gear arrangements, the Affordaplane or AffordaCub would be viable.
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You could buy a Good Manual Tube Bender like a JD2 Model 3 with a Square Die and a One Inch Round Die and eliminate many Gusset Joints. Upgrade MTOW from 540 lbs needs (33hp), to 600 lbs needs 36hp, or 650 lbs needs 40hp.

DuroMax has a New 500cc, [email protected] Single Cylinder for their 1300w Generator, that once upgraded should make [email protected]

#### Macthenife33

##### Member
just what is the A planes safety record . to hear some of you gentlemen speak of it you would think it would be raining A Planes from the heavens . The owners / builders seem to think quite highly of them .

#### erkki67

##### Well-Known Member
Does there exist any pictures or videos of an ultralight flying with a gx390 or clone?

#### Jay Dub

##### Active Member
I remember looking into the clones and I found a video of an n3 with a clone 420 iirc taking off on a beach. It was mostly tan colored. I tried looking for it but I can't locate it now.