Vashon Ranger Problems

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rv7charlie

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Does anyone really make a plane that doesn't leak in the rain?

The servo issue really is a mess (easily fixable), but most of the other stuff really sounds like a buyer who didn't know enough to ask the right questions, or understand the answers.
 

Pilot Rick

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Does anyone really make a plane that doesn't leak in the rain?

The servo issue really is a mess (easily fixable), but most of the other stuff really sounds like a buyer who didn't know enough to ask the right questions, or understand the answers.


You can look at any of the 10,000 or so planes that spend a week at oshkosh with unrelenting afternoon thunderstorms and realize that none leak this bad. My cozy doesn't leak at all and I have never seen any type of piper or cessna with pools of water in them so bad the carpets are drenched.
 
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Pilot Rick

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Could be early teething problems for a new design? Something certainly needs to be done about some of these things, however. That trim servo mounting looks like something out of Raptor (if it were metal).
However the complaint about the composite prop is nonsense - wood cores are common in composite props even in the certified world.
Is the (c)raptor now the industry standard for "bad"? I think you might be on to something!
 

Kyle Boatright

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You can look at any of the 10,000 or so planes that spend a week at oshkosh with relenting afternoon thunderstorms and realize that none leak this bad. My cozy doesn't leak at all and I have never seen any type of piper or cessna with pools of water in them so bad the carpets are drenched.
I don't think there is any chance that amount of water came through the pop rivets. I'm guessing something else is going on. Maybe he bought a cabin cover that funneled water into the wing/fuse intersection.

And he's complaining about Vashon's purchase agreement. Dude, if you sign it, you don't get to complain. The agreement was there in black and white. You don't like it, don't sign it and don't exchange money for the product.
 
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Daleandee

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The plane is for sale ... and it appears he is being quite honest about why that is. :eek:
 

Pilot Rick

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I don't think there is any chance that amount of water came through the pop rivets. I'm guessing something else is going on. Maybe he bought a cabin cover that funneled water into the wing/fuse intersection.

And he's complaining about Vashon's purchase agreement. Dude, if you sign it, you don't get to complain. The agreement was there in black and white. You don't like it, don't sign it and don't exchange money for the product.
Why can't you complain after signing a deal you regret? I am happy he is showing the agreement to the internet so it informs all of us. I think that agreement is insane but maybe the agreement is compounded by a really awful plane with a ton of problems. He probably regrets the whole thing! Also I don't buy the fact that the cover is the problem with the rain intrusion. Plenty of covers are on similar planes. Did the designers really build a plane that is incompatible with a standard looking cover?
 

rv7charlie

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Regretting a deal you made with your eyes wide open is not the same thing as blaming the other party for you signing that deal. (BTW, those kinds of agreements are almost never enforceable, anyway.)

Designing an aircraft to fit a potential cover that doesn't exist yet but is supposed to fit the plane, sounds...difficult, at best. And wouldn't be my first choice in aircraft designs, either. ;-)
 

jedi

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It is a fallacy that small aircraft get hit by lightning - check the accident statistics, no single engine small aircraft crash because of a lightning strike. Therefore lightning protection is just redundant weight and cost. Can you show the regulation that requires lightning protection for an LSA or homebuilt to fly IMC? Thunderstorms kill pilots each year, but not lightning.
No. I can not quote a " regulation that requires lightning protection for an LSA". but I know that all the EU imported LSA have a prohibition against spins and flight in IMC. I think that is part of the EU certification. I do not have a copy of the current ASTM standards for US certified LSAs but years ago when I was involved with ASTM LSA standards the ASTM standards did not address IMC operations.
 

Kyle Boatright

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Also I don't buy the fact that the cover is the problem with the rain intrusion. Plenty of covers are on similar planes. Did the designers really build a plane that is incompatible with a standard looking cover?
Try to differentiate between fact and opinion. I clearly offered the opinion that the problem isn't the rivets and that there is something else going on, maybe due to the cabin cover. As far as the plane having a ton of problems, I count two. It should be fairly easy to figure out the cause of the water problem. The elevator servo issue - apparently, there is an easy fix. The prop - he didn't understand what he bought - that's his fault, not a problem with the airplane.

I'm not a fan of the Ranger - it is ugly, IMO, but this reeks of the maritial fight syndrome where you throw every grievance you've ever had at your spouse, even if they aren't really warranted, are/were easy to resolve, whatever.
 

Pilot Rick

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Try to differentiate between fact and opinion. I clearly offered the opinion that the problem isn't the rivets and that there is something else going on, maybe due to the cabin cover. As far as the plane having a ton of problems, I count two. It should be fairly easy to figure out the cause of the water problem. The elevator servo issue - apparently, there is an easy fix. The prop - he didn't understand what he bought - that's his fault, not a problem with the airplane.

I'm not a fan of the Ranger - it is ugly, IMO, but this reeks of the maritial fight syndrome where you throw every grievance you've ever had at your spouse, even if they aren't really warranted, are/were easy to resolve, whatever.
I agree with you 100% on the prop (non) issue! That is clearly not an issue everything else seems to be a big problem to me. I would stay away from a ranger. I don't know if these issues are easy to resolve or else they would have been resolved and the guy wouldn't be trying to sell the plane.
 

jedi

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You can look at any of the 10,000 or so planes that spend a week at oshkosh with unrelenting afternoon thunderstorms and realize that none leak this bad. My cozy doesn't leak at all and I have never seen any type of Piper or Cessna with pools of water in them so bad the carpets are drenched.
It may be that "none leak this bad" but I'll bet most do leak. The trick is to have the leak travel to a drain hole without soaking the pilot and fabric.

Yes, many planes leak but leaks are not so common when the plane is brand new.

I had thought the leaks would be solved after the DC-3; some of which required a "good raincoat over your lap" when flying through heavy rain. Then I found that even the pressurized DC-8 required rain gear. Condensation would form ice inside the overhead panel that would melt on descent and drip on the pilot and copilot.

I also know of a kind and considerate captain the bought a sweatshirt on layover and cut it in half down the middle so that he and his copilot could fly the return leg without freezing the arm next to the cockpit wall.
 

BBerson

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Looks like the one piece wing sits on top. Nice. Just seal the windshield with white tape like any quarter million motor glider. It's almost half price of competition.
See cockpit inside here: Vashon Aircraft
 

bmcj

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You can look at any of the 10,000 or so planes that spend a week at oshkosh with unrelenting afternoon thunderstorms and realize that none leak this bad. My cozy doesn't leak at all and I have never seen any type of piper or cessna with pools of water in them so bad the carpets are drenched.
I don’t get as much water in my open cockpit biplane as he got in the Vashon. 😉
 

djmcfall

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I looked over the Ranger at Airventure 2019. The fit and finish was so poor I was unable to latch the right door. I asked the salesman about it and you could tell he was embarrassed. He said that they would address it when they got the plane back to the factory. I was not impressed to say the least.
 

Mitchell

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Personally I hope they do really well. I asked them a few weeks back about options for more hp. (I personally think a 2 weeks to taxi program would be a great addition for their business). They said a 4 seat version was in the works that will use a larger engine. If it’s just a slightly scaled up version of the Ranger I could see myself buying one.
 

rv7charlie

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Last I heard, the Ranger was only available ready to fly; reason given was that it is so simple to assemble that setting up & running a kitting operation would cost the customer more than the factory labor saved. Have they changed their marketing plan?
 

Mitchell

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Last I heard, the Ranger was only available ready to fly; reason given was that it is so simple to assemble that setting up & running a kitting operation would cost the customer more than the factory labor saved. Have they changed their marketing plan?
No I think they are betting on a lsa rules change which would hopefully allow 4 seat aircraft and higher weights.

I doubt a kit version would make sense profit wise, but a builder assist at the factory would probably fit in nicely and allow their market base to grow
 
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