Sometimes the "Big Sky" isn't big enough

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by fly2kads, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. Jul 7, 2015 #1

    fly2kads

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  2. Jul 7, 2015 #2

    JamesG

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    Very strange incident. That area is congested, but not that bad. The investigation is probably going to suck.
     
  3. Jul 8, 2015 #3

    spduffee

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    I will be surprised if the report cites the F16 pilot as having fault.
     
  4. Jul 8, 2015 #4

    JamesG

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    An F-16 has an order of magnitude more speed, maneuverability, and even visibility than a 150. AFAIK even if they were in controlled airspace or a MOA its going to be a very tall order for it to NOT be the jet driver's fault here. Fighter pilots sometimes don't think with the head that is on their shoulders...



     
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  5. Jul 8, 2015 #5

    Toobuilder

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    No MOA in that area - looks like class C airspace. It's reported the jet driver was flying practice approaches to the nearby base. Does not seem likely he was flying around with "his hair on fire".

    Not sure if a flight plan was on file... That MUST be it!
     
  6. Jul 8, 2015 #6

    Pops

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    Case closed, King.

    Are you old enough to remember?

    Dan
     
  7. Jul 8, 2015 #7

    BJC

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    Google "Tampa F-16 collision with Cessna" for a white-washed accident report.


    BJC
     
  8. Jul 8, 2015 #8

    Hot Wings

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    F-16 accident report released

    Doesn't look too "white washed" to me. Seems the primary blame was assigned to the F-16 pilots - and the f-16's navigation hardware. Controllers got their share too.

    We need something besides ADS-b out in our future to get the humans out of the loop.
     
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  9. Jul 9, 2015 #9

    SVSUSteve

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    As James pointed out, given the visibility and maneuverability of the fighters it's likely both pilots will be faulted as is typical in mid-airs. It's happened quite a few times before including the classic cases of the F-4 out of Cherry Point that sheared the tail off of a light twin they were intercepting after it violated the ADIZ and the F-111 that slammed into the rear of a Cessna (206?) after mistaking its lights for a tanker much further away.

    There was also the Cessna 172 vs F-16 down in Florida where, if I recall correctly, it was written up as being due to a fault in the transponder on the lead F-16 in the flight causing ATC error and the inherent limitations of see and avoid. EDIT: Someone already mentioned this case. Guess I should have read down further.
     
  10. Jul 9, 2015 #10

    BJC

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    I guess that I have seen too many examples in Florida of F-16's flying outside of Restricted or MOA airspace at very high speeds. How about right across a GA airport runway at an estimated 75 feet AGL and 450 knots?


    BJC
     
  11. Jul 9, 2015 #11

    SVSUSteve

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    Yeah, a call to the Air Force Safety Center (not to the squadron command at the local base) will take care of that especially if you have multiple pilot-rated witnesses. One of the jet jockeys here in Indiana did something similar and got ratted out by a group of GA pilots. He was a lieutenant colonel about to become a colonel when he did it and last I heard he was a major.
     
  12. Jul 9, 2015 #12

    mcrae0104

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    On the bright side, at least he wasn't over the runway very long. :lick:
     
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  13. Jul 9, 2015 #13

    SVSUSteve

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    LOL My first thought was "He was probably less of a collision threat than the guy not talking on the radio who doesn't abide by standard pattern entry!"
     
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  14. Jul 9, 2015 #14

    Vigilant1

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    +1. Call it in. Flat-hatting and showing off get people killed, waste tax dollars, and ruin public relations and trust. Note: A few aircraft have a waiver to the 250 kt max below 10K--the T-38, for instance, is allowed speeds up to 300 KIAS (it just doesn't have much wing). And a low approach over a runway is permissible--at appropriate speeds.
     
  15. Jul 9, 2015 #15

    JamesG

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    A couple of months ago some dude busted M-1 over Columbus, GA, which does not happen, even next door in Ft. Benning with an ATG range (too many other tenant units and schools for that much speed). Lots of calls to 911 for an "explosion" and it made the local news. I would not have wanted to be that guy that week...
     
  16. Jul 9, 2015 #16

    Hot Wings

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    I know it's been a long time, but I never was bothered by sonic booms. I kind of miss them. Many, if not most, of us looked forward to them as something "different" that happened that day. I never heard of anyone around here loosing any windows or complaining about the noise. The noise from making up trains a few miles away at night is more of a bother.
     
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  17. Jul 9, 2015 #17

    Pops

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    True-- In the 50's and part of the 60's, I lived across the Ohio River from the largest railroad yard in the world at that time.

    Dan
     
  18. Jul 10, 2015 #18

    SVSUSteve

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    ...or for several weeks after that. He's probably still bleeding from a particular orifice after multiple government agencies took their turns with him.
     
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  19. Jul 10, 2015 #19

    autoreply

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    A few years ago I spotted half a squadron of Mirages 2000's scud-running and doing so directly over a glider field. They were probably far below 300 ft AGL. Mightily impressive to see them approaching from above, but bloody scary because they were still winching (one mile of thick steel cable going airborne every few minutes). My heart skipped a few beats there....

    Another mid-air in the Netherlands between an F16 and a Piper was what made Mode-S transponders mandatory for GA. Despite the F16 having shut off it's radar and transponder detection and doing 500 kts in class G airspace...
     
  20. Jul 10, 2015 #20

    KAF

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    Mid '60's, elementary school in southwest Missouri--just a ton of sonic booms that would rattle the windows. I've no idea who they were or why we were on the flight path, but it was pretty awesome to hear (and feel!).
     
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