Some education if someone has the time, please

Discussion in 'Subaru' started by geosnooker2000, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Apr 9, 2019 #61

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

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    I know several. But I have some questions. Does Jan still provide support for his Subaru-based FWF packages? How many did he sell?

    Are they flying, or still in construction?


    BJC
     
  2. Apr 9, 2019 #62

    geosnooker2000

    geosnooker2000

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    No. I don't imagine it will be often. An example: I have a 7 passenger Explorer. I have only filled up the seats once in the year I've owned it, but I would not trade the third row seats just because the frequency of use is low. So, I imagine one or two trips per year to the ski slopes our west with two daughters and ski gear. That would be max weight. Several other times we and another couple go for the $100 hamburger. MOSTLY... me and the wife go fishing in the ozarks/go to Tampa to visit a good friend couple of ours/go to wherever her annual conference is without having to deal with connecting flights and TSA/etc. So I imagine the most often experience would be 2 people plus luggage.
     
  3. Apr 9, 2019 #63

    wsimpso1

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    Engenfellner has a reputation for deleting unfavorable comments about his engines, threatening lawsuits on folks who speak out, and generally bullying away folks who do not like what they got for their cash. If you do business with him, I do hope you have a good engine and love flying it. But if you do not, remember that you were warned...
     
  4. Apr 9, 2019 #64

    wsimpso1

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    Listen to Byron. Chase down these answers. Satisfy yourself on these concerns.
     
  5. Apr 9, 2019 #65

    Toobuilder

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    I also understand Jan cruises forums under multiple identities to ensure at least some positive spin gets through. Might even be the case here.
     
  6. Apr 9, 2019 #66

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    Geo-

    I'd STRONGLY suggest you start flying before you make a commitment to your mission. Even if your mission survives your actual flying experience (mine sure didn't), your perception of real world performance certainty won't.

    Bottom line is that you are looking for a replacement for a 180-200 HP aircraft engine. That's a tough niche for auto conversions.
     
  7. Apr 9, 2019 #67

    blane.c

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  8. Apr 9, 2019 #68

    Rmm

    Rmm

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    Not the case here. See....so cheap and so easy just to dismiss what you don't like with a cheap personal attack.

    I just appreciate fairness and honesty. Jan has a prickly personality. So what?? Anything so unique there?

    AGAIN...for the real story just go to the Viking forum and the Viking specific Zenith forum and do some fair study.

    And HEY.... Go watch Jon Croke, of HomeBuilt Help building a Zenith Super Duty with whom?? Jan Eggenfellner and his friend Vern.

    Jon Croke flies his Zenith Cruzer with what?? A Viking 130 Honda.

    Jon Croke of HomeBuilt Help is who?? Just one of the most respected individuals supporting the E-AB community.

    WHERE::


    In this Internet age, it is IMPOSSIBLE to cover up "Lots of Folks". BUT... all so easy to spread misinformation and exaggeration with just a bit of trash talk and dredging of past failures. Hard to do real research.

    No one is saying Jan's Subaru days were a success. But this is America. The Viking Honda is a great engine choice and has served the E-AB community very well.

    Viking has addressed these few two or three cases online where customers used the internet and the Zenith forum to make charges against the company. It is not difficult to understand the facts and the history.

    But you will want to read instead of just bashing away because this is the Internet and it is so easy to avoid facts. It is called fairness and due diligence.
     
  9. Apr 9, 2019 #69

    Rmm

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    http://www.zenith.aero/forum/topics...and-new-honda-engine?xg_source=msg_forum_disc

    Watch the short video of Dave from Kansas talking about his experience as a Viking Customer.

    From the Zenith Aircraft company website:
    "The following engines have been installed and tested in the Zenith CH 650 prototypes at the factory: UL Power, Continental O-200, Jabiru 3300, Lycoming O-235, Rotax 912S, and Viking Engines. "

    Zenith did not make this statement without due consideration of its customers' safety and satisfaction.

    Just a fact.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  10. Apr 10, 2019 #70

    Rmm

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    Viking has a 180HP Honda Accord engine. Buy new or used. Installed and flying on the Zenith Super Duty and also installed on a Just Aircraft SuperSTOL. The initial gear box was not up to the loads. Has been beefed up since. The 180HP will probably will go into Jon Croke's new Super Duty Zenith that is under construction now. See link above.
     
  11. Apr 10, 2019 #71

    mcrae0104

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    Hi RMM, welcome to HBA. I see you've been having this same fight other places too. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Viking_Aircraft_Engine/conversations/topics/2307

    You seem to be quite an apologist for Mr. Eggenfellner. Just to remove any doubt, would you be willing to tell us all here that you're not actually Jan?

    Again, welcome, and good luck with your CH750 project.
     
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  12. Apr 10, 2019 #72

    proppastie

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  13. Apr 10, 2019 #73

    BJC

    BJC

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    Agree that fairness and due diligence call for facts. Still waiting for answers to my questions:

    Does Jan still provide support for his Subaru customers?

    How many Viking engines are flying?

    Also awaiting your answer to mcrae0104's question:

    Are you Jan Eggenfellner?

    Thank you,


    BJC
     
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  14. Apr 10, 2019 #74

    Toobuilder

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    This individual seems to have answered that question in post 68, but the behavior in this thread indicates otherwise.

    IMHO, it takes a special brand of zealot to so casually dismiss the dismal past behavior of the Subbie experience. The poor engineering, having the customer perform development testing without their knowledge, the broken promises... This story is legendary among the Homebuilt community. Sounds like there was also a redesign of the 180 HP Accord powerplant... I assume this deficiency was found AFTER product release on a customer airplane rather than the test cell? Happy to hear otherwise.

    Yep, people can change. But there is a particularly nasty legacy to overcome here - one of the worst in Homebuilt history. It's going to take more than a few positive posts from the manufacturers own message board to clear it up.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  15. Apr 10, 2019 #75

    BJC

    BJC

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    No direct denial there - only referring to Jan.


    BJC
     
  16. Apr 10, 2019 #76

    Rmm

    Rmm

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    ======
    I already did so. Just read. I clearly responded..."NOT THE CASE HERE" to the first such comment. What part of that is not clear?

    And again if reading for facts and actual details is important...anyone is welcome to read those posts on the website you reference. Not difficult to understand that forum's real purpose. More name calling and repeated innuendo here does not change the facts.

    I have explained my reasons for posting and given ample sources for those interested. I am apologizing for nobody. Fairness and facts matter. What I object to is conflating past failings with present success solely because it is easy to do in this Internet age.

    Speaking out is a right and a responsibility. I take that seriously. The recurrent bashing of Viking based on old history and two or three problematic cases is unfair. Check out similar discussions on the Zenith and Viking forum. All the details are there. The Viking engine is an outstanding and excellent engine choice. My posts here are genuine.

    You will also notice that I have said only positive things about FOUR other engine options. Apologizing for what exactly in doing so?? Just because you don't like what someone says then do whatever you can to diminish and disparage? Hardly a good example. The aviation community deserves better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  17. Apr 10, 2019 #77

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

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    I object to conflating business success with an owner’s character and integrity.


    BJC
     
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  18. Apr 10, 2019 #78

    geosnooker2000

    geosnooker2000

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    Sooo... (pops head up in the middle of a fracas) that's a "no" on the Subaru? :cool:
     
  19. Apr 10, 2019 #79

    geosnooker2000

    geosnooker2000

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    Wonder what kind of feces storm I could get started over on the Corvair sub-forum just by asking a simple basic question that actually has to do with the engine itself....
    Imma go find out.
     
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  20. Apr 11, 2019 #80

    Rmm

    Rmm

    Rmm

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    ===
    Besides more name calling with the "Z" word, as if that diminishes the validity of what is on record here in this thread....If you want to write things like "Sounds like..." and "I assume..." followed by "Happy to hear otherwise"... then in effect all the effort is thrown on others to disprove your negative rumors and assumptions and nothing of substance regarding the Viking Honda has been presented to support your charges. Nothing offered as a basis.

    If you are truly happy to hear otherwise, then do your homework. All there on the forum sites referenced.

    As for the bigger Viking 180 Turbo, the only problem I have ever noted was the gearbox could not handle the load and was reworked into a beefed up design. All those details were online for anyone happy to read. The Viking factory did the testing and did the needed improvements. That particular aircraft is the first Super Duty kit from the Zenith factory.

    As far as the 110hp and now 130hp and 180hp Viking engines, if you track the story, there is a long history of improvements. Nothing unusual there. You can read about the same for any challenging product development cycle including UL Power and Jabiru to name just two engines that have their own histories. But they are well proven now, just as the Viking Honda conversion. Nothing surprising at all.

    Jan will never overcome his Subaru history. But the Viking Honda is not the same legacy repeated. Seems people just wanted him to fail and when instead the Viking went from modest success with the 110HP to hundreds of engines with the 130hp, some folks just could not tolerate it and use every means to trash and bash what is obviously an excellent and well supported E-AB engine option. There are some interesting few threads on the Zenith Viking engine forum that is worth the time to anyone "happy to read".

    As far as the "character and integrity" charge... I already noted that Jan is not an easy character at times. But the "Lots of Folks" line is just bunk.

    The HUNDREDS of Viking owners and all the successful first flights is the real story. Those builders are fully capable of sorting out the history and the present. They are as intelligent and diligent as anyone here. That is a FACT. Can you say "Hundreds of Happy Owners of Viking Honda Aircraft Engines" without getting your knickers all in a bunch while choking on your beer?

    The Subaru issues are real history. Now like what... twelve years later, the Viking Honda is a real success and that is good for E-AB.

    I am happy to see options. And I am happy to wish Viking even greater success in the future. No apologies given or needed for that.
     

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