Rutan Ski-gull

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by lear999wa, Mar 31, 2013.

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  1. May 29, 2013 #41

    lear999wa

    lear999wa

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    Here are some screenshots I took while watching the video. I think it's safe to say that this Rutan design is not going to be a canard.
     

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  2. May 29, 2013 #42

    DangerZone

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    Re: Rutan outa clue ?

    Yeah, I've been to both Magic Mountain and Blue Tornado but to build an amphibian and then have a one time ride, that would be more than expensive... :D
     
  3. May 29, 2013 #43

    Jay Kempf

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    Nice editing thanks. I guess the guy that took the video is going make Burt a bit angry. It seems a light somewhat flat bottomed approach with the skis to keep from getting slammed is a good compromise. If the ski trailing edges are somewhat in line with the normal step location of a traditional seaplane hull then you have the best of both worlds. Rutan is a great creative thinker. He has traded some draggy items like struts for the speed at which he intends to fly. So it can land at a glider field like a glider does and it can get back out of that field as long as it is mowed fairly close. But it will take some power to get out of something less smooth. And emergency landings have so many options they aren't really even emergencies. Multifuel is a great way to go too. The Marine engines made for multifuels now are really getting sophisticated and there are tons of powerheads out there. You don't see Burt arguing over whether a reduction drive is possible or not or whether the engines are direct drive or not or whether they are certified. He just knows he can make it work.
     
  4. May 29, 2013 #44

    Holden

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    Lear,

    Nice work.

    Looks like the rear passenger sits between the center support section. Hmmm. Does not seem to be "cozy" to me.

    Struts? Hmmm. Could be helpful in swinging the wing, but for a composite guy???

    The nose looks like it will block downward views. Landing on a boat is not going to end well. Forward visibility is perhaps one of the main issues in boat-seaplane interaction which drives regulators crazy. When I opened up my State's 5 major lakes, forward visibility was key. The Sea-Era is hardly enough and the typical float plane was completely unacceptable to the State Park director and board. This nose is not going to be well received by regulators... The slope has to be at least the glide slope (5 degrees) plus pitch up, plus 10...say 30 degrees. An airplane is NOT a car that sits on the ground. Think helicopter views, not classical Lake, Goose or Cub nose design.

    The flaps in the wing don't look very large in chord. They must be fowler or something tucked up under that extends.

    The outboard floats seem to want to dig in... Clearly not flat and clearly a danger. How can it bank in a turn?

    I better hold my tongue before I say much more...

    BTW, I think Rutan stated he did not like the LSA regulation and that is was useless or something like that. He likes to go high and far when he wants to get somewhere. IFR over parts of the Rockies is 13,000 ft. I agree with Rutan and would go one step further and say bag most regulations for airplanes under 3400 lbs or so. Self certify like the LSA. Stop the crazy control freak "regulations" that make an industry very irregular.


    Holden
     
  5. May 30, 2013 #45

    Holden

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    Re: Rutan outa clue ?

    BBerson,

    Yes, Rutan has a "back up" ignition system to his heart. Quite a few laughs from that... "First time you land an airplane on water...you giggle..."

    Rutan says he "found a way to get around this LSA crap" at 43:12 on the video.... With LSA you can't climb above 10,000 ft, can't do multi...it is "stupid" in a word according to Rutan.

    The rule of motor glider is weight/span^2 = .62 in English units. 1430 lbs means 48 ft span.

    "Sponsons" float 40% of the weight and the center hull is 60% according to Rutan. No V hull and is a true "trimaran" according to Rutan.

    No step so it does not have the drag of a seaplane according to Rutan.

    Skis have plastic like a dog sled on the bottom. Roller blade wheels. Cost of aircraft wheels much more than roller blade wheels.

    Leading edge down and then back to fold. Panel tip comes off to "deal with the medical" according to Rutan.

    "Designing a boat is a hell of a lot harder than an airplane" according to Rutan.

    Basically go to 42 minutes onward and you get the ski gull goods.


    Holden
     
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  6. May 30, 2013 #46

    BBerson

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    It not just the medical, a LSA can't use two engines either.....

    so my guess is you helped Burt learn about motor gliders.....;)
     
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  7. May 30, 2013 #47

    Aircar

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    I couldn't wait out the whole video but it was vintage Burt --not saying anything specific and remonstrating about NASA etc --the guy doing the video was deliberately panning away from the screen when anything specific about his ski gull was shown (!!) -I guess being true to Burt's request not to disclose anything but bloody frustrating still. It sounds like he is rehashing an old idea tried by dick schreder on his first sailplane with the landing gear -he also used a row of very small wheels on the then traditionasl sprung skid but it was next to useless except on really smooth concrete and couldn't be turned . Nothing shown looks very auspicious and somewhat inelegant in overall shape (an unfortunate characteristic of many of Burt's ships ) He passed over the BiPod with the usual non information as well . Burt's designs always seem to have little porthole windows and fairly baroque fin shapes and not really matching shapes (his video on aesthetics was dismissing this as 'paint lines and logos' -with a little more flair the Defiant and others might have sold and not needed any compromise to function .

    Burt unfortunately plays to an audience and gets the laughs but leaves all the substance out (also the "glider guy" that he says helped him working until midnight for his dinner was Fred jiran -very unfairly overlooked by Burt and uncreditted -it was Fred who introduced Burt to the whole world of composite construction and hot wired cores etc . Fred was born Austrian but became a naturalized Australian and by chance almost was trained by FFA to repair construction defects in Diamant gliders in the late sixties and settled in Mojave before Burt moved in .

    Burt's career summary might have recognized a few of the others who helped him along and some of the serendipity. Nice to see he has looked at the real recreational aircraft though.
     
  8. Jun 4, 2013 #48

    Himat

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    If the screenshots are representative for the design it does look very conventional. There are room for and could be innovations in the detailed execution of the design, but still I would expect to see hint's of that in the general layout.
     
  9. Feb 16, 2015 #49

    dviglierchio

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    In case anyone is interested, Burt days he’ll be done and will bring it to Oshkosh this year.
     
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  10. Feb 16, 2015 #50

    StarJar

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    Always nice to have one Burt's neighbors on the forum.:gig:
     
  11. Feb 17, 2015 #51

    harrisonaero

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    Davis is close to Coeur d'Alene?
     
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  12. Feb 17, 2015 #52

    Floydr92

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    anyone think Burt is actually a silent member of this site? you'd never know, but homebuilt airplanes is what he does. would be cool if he revealed himself :p
     
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  13. Feb 17, 2015 #53

    Turd Ferguson

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    Depending on map scale, can be as close as 1"
     
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  14. Feb 17, 2015 #54

    Sockmonkey

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    The screenshots seem to indicate something like the old Catalina seaplanes.
     
  15. Feb 24, 2015 #55

    dviglierchio

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    No, not a neighbor. He has mentioned it to our canard world. Now EAA has confirmed.
     
  16. Feb 24, 2015 #56

    StarJar

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    Well at least you are a sport. It was sort of a joke, that I got, from my mom saying to me "Wouldn't you like to live next to Burt Rutan?"
     
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  17. Mar 14, 2015 #57

    aaronhowell

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    Here is some information if you haven't caught wind of it yet, it came from Burt himself to support our Kickstarter campaign!

    https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-up-way-up-the-burt-rutan-story/posts/1163753

    [h=2]BURT RUTAN’S NEW PLANE THE SKIGULL – ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WITHOUT EVER STOPPING AT AN AIRPORT[/h]
    “Imagine an aircraft able to land in large swells near any ocean shoreline, ride the waves to the beach, from where you could hike in for lunch and gas. Since it uses car/boat gas … it will rarely go to an airport.
    “Imagine also going to snow fields anywhere there is around 400ft of relatively smooth snow, or to a dirt patch right at Puma Punku, or any part of the Amazon, including the tiny rivers that feed it. Imagine doing a 8-month exploration trip around the world without EVER going to an airport ...
     
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  18. Mar 14, 2015 #58

    Retroflyer_S

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    I wonder how many electric/solar aeroplanes did Burt Rutan create.

    That is not very abundant figure I presume ?

    Why is that ?
     
  19. Mar 14, 2015 #59

    Riggerrob

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    According to the two screen shots, Mr. Rutan's Ski Gull looks more like a 1930s-vintage Dornier flying boat.
    In many respects, it resembles the recent Dornier S-Ray. The wing is mounted on top of a tall pylon (ala. PBY Catalina). Each wing is braced by a single strut and each wing folds aft to lay alongside the fuselage. The pylon is higher than half the diameter of a propeller, because both propellers are mounted on the wing root. One propeller pulls, while the other propeller pushes. Both crew sit in the fuselage/hull one behind the other.
    Like most of the Dorniers, Ski Gull depends upon a single, large water ski for hydrodynamic lift. The major innovation is that Ski Gull's water ski is semi-retractable.
    Large chord sponsons (aka. water wings) provide lateral stability. Sponson span looks to be less than the 8 foot limit for trailering on public highways.
    The rest of the Ski Gull airframe appears to be Burt's usual collection of cones and cylinders surmounted by a high aspect ratio wing. While Burt's airplanes may not be classic beauties, he has designed and built and flown dozens of flying machines that pushed the boundaries and even set a few world records.

    All of the Ski Gull configuration makes sense. I have been sketching a similar-sized amphibian for many years and reached many of the same design compromises as Mr. Duran ... but Burt is a few years ahead of me on construction. I eagerly anticipate seeing his Ski Gull prototype at Oshkosh.

    How many of you remember the little biplane kit plane (Glass Goose?) that Burt designed 30 years ago?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  20. Mar 15, 2015 #60

    ThadBeier

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    I'm pretty sure that the Glass Goose was not designed by Burt. It did use similar moldless composite construction, but it was designed independently.
     
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