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Raptor Composite Aircraft

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TFF

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With all that new room, he is starting to think how hard can it be. He will probably smarten up. Hopefully it will not cost a prop or worse. His hops being in ground effect have been about 20 slower than the 90 just mentioned as flying speed. Once he breaks ground it’s going to accelerate. He will be at 110 in no time. If he pushes it back on the ground, it’s going to really dribble, otherwise he will have to slow it down with a regular flair which he has not done.

I think it’s a filter in case of fire. It’s what they were wearing racing at Reno.
 

BBerson

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Airplanes don't accelerate after breaking from ground. (seaplanes do from water).
He has already shown a 1" test. It isn't that difficult with a reasonable throttle control.
 

TFF

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Maybe at a constant low throttle, but every plane I have been in if kept low and level got going fast. You crank in best climb it’s just trading energy X for Y. You stay in X and he is doing 150 at the end of the runway for sure. His leaping if off once he pulls the power to guarantee it doesn’t get away, will get to its limit. Barrel down the runway to 90, close the throttle and yank on the stick. That’s what he will do. The hats how he has done it in the past. He is not going to throttle to 90 hold it at that speed and ease it up. I don’t think he has that skill. This thing is already at TBM takeoff speeds. Milking it to slow it down is not what he is ready for if it really gets going.
 

TarDevil

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Marc Zeitlin gave us a good analysis of the take-off characteristics of canards. If I understood him correctly it takes considerably more than stall speed to rotate for takeoff, and that probably goes double for Raptor with the main gear so far back. That 1" hop proved nothing except it takes about 90 to get in the air. Watch the elevator as the mains left the runway; it went full deflection up. You can get away with that one inch off the ground, but all but impossible in ground effect unless Peter wants to damage Raptor's nose.
 

malte

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And it's BAD idea :rolleyes:
At least, then his "engineering" won't cost a WASABI-life. There is a saying in Germany, that the air cleans itself...

After having read numerous pages here, watching some of Peters and all of Wasabis Videos, I can only concur in the notion that Wasabi do a superb job in first flight preparation. It is very much the same process that we follow for flight testing and envelope openings (although as a certification company, we usually do the calculations for loads, characteristics and performance prior to extensive (structural) ground testing ourselves - so I doubt we would attempt a first flight of a raptor based on the data apparent).

Anyway, I have no doubt that Wasabi is the best team, not only on a professional, but also in communicating a first flight process to the general public.

Happy landings,
 

BBerson

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Do you guys think only a certified test pilot team can fly a plane 20 seconds down the runway?
Owner/builders have been testing airplanes for more than a 100 years.
 

TFF

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No, but a two million dollar airplane bought on others money, you be the judge. If it was mine under regular circumstances , I probably would, but I would have bought EZ for practice. A friend just bought a EZ and he adapted quickly, but I’m not quite ready to go for a ride with him.
 

Kyle Boatright

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Do you guys think only a certified test pilot team can fly a plane 20 seconds down the runway?
Owner/builders have been testing airplanes for more than a 100 years.
There is a long history of fatal accidents too. Peter has blinders on. He doesn’t recognize all of the problems with his creation. That’s why you bring in someone qualified and objective - to honestly evaluate the aircraft and confirm that it appears airworthy before attempting flight.

Richard Hogan of Commutercraft died a year and a half ago trying to fly his creation to hit schedule milestones pertaining to financing and SNF attendance.

Peter is headed down the same path.
 

bmcj

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Regardless of who is going to fly it, I was thinking that since he already had it dissembled and loaded, he should have gone whatever distance it took to get an even (majorly) longer strip for his test flights. I don’t know what’s available out there, but had it been here in California, El Mirage Dry Lake would have been a candidate... 7 miles of ‘runway’ in just about any direction IIRC, then flat and no obstructions beyond that. Just pre-arrange for a fire truck and paramedics to be on hand.
 

BBerson

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bring in someone qualified and objective - to honestly evaluate the aircraft and confirm that it appears airworthy before attempting
Well then he needs to get that quality evaluation of the aircraft. He doesn't need them to test fly it. Any current competent pilot with canard experience can do the test flight.
I think you are saying Peter is headed down the same path as Elliot in his Quickie?
 
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speedracer

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I sold a Long EZ to a guy who had previously built and flew a Varieze. He told me he sold it to an experienced, fairly high time pilot who had never flown a canard. The pitch control on EZ's is sensitive (but not the roll) and takes a little getting used to. The buyer said he didn't think he'd have any problems flying it. He took off to fly it home, got into a serious PIO problem, crashed and killed himself.
 

TarDevil

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How much experience in canards does Justin have? We know Elliot has some Quickie time. What else?
Ask them. They respond well on YouTube or Instagram.
Also, ask them how many different types of aircraft they've flown.

Regardless of configuration, successful test pilots understand the nature of their beast and are conditioned to react to the aircraft. Wasabi has been successful.
 

TFF

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I liked the article Elliot wrote for kitplane about going to the only civilian test pilot school with credentials. $1,000,000 and they don’t smirk when they ask for the check.
 

pictsidhe

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Do you guys think only a certified test pilot team can fly a plane 20 seconds down the runway?
Owner/builders have been testing airplanes for more than a 100 years.
Competent builder with an established design. Probably not.
The Raptor, however, has a lot of design and construction question marks. It was only partly built by competent people.
 

Marc Zeitlin

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Well then he needs to get that quality evaluation of the aircraft. He doesn't need them to test fly it. Any current competent pilot with canard experience can do the test flight.
So I'll disagree vehemently with this. _IF_ what was being tested here was just another Long-EZ or COZY, then you'd be mostly correct (as long as they were built to plans, and verified so).

But with a brand new design, even one that looks vaguely like other canards, we have NO IDEA what its flight characteristics will be. I have over 1800 hours in canards and I've examined the Raptor in person, and I will categorically state that there is no universe (other than the one in which I feel no pain and can't die, and neither can anyone else) in which I would be willing to get in that plane and attempt to fly it. And I would not recommend that any OTHER pilot, who is not a trained test pilot with time in MANY different aircraft types as well as canards, get in it and fly it, no matter how much other canard time they might have. There is no reason to believe that this canard aircraft will behave, particularly in non-nominal situations, like any other canard (or conventional) aircraft.

In fact (and I've had this discussion with Justin), even Justin is somewhat sub-optimal, as he does not have hundreds of hours in canards, although (IIRC) he has been checked out in canards by my CFII, who's an F-16/F-35 test pilot at Edwards AFB and has over 1000 hours in canards, including his COZY MKIV.

I think you are saying Peter is headed down the same path as Elliot in his Quickie?
I have had numerous discussions with Elliot regarding the Quickie crash, and evaluated his public report prior to his publishing it. The Quickie issue with Elliot was (as Elliot will tell you) a judgement issue regarding cross-wind capability as well as a poor choice of aircraft for a twin engine installation, given the rudder on a Quickie being approximately twice the size of a postage stamp.
 
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