Wanted Plans for Rocky Mountain Wings "Ridge Runner" UL/LSA Aircraft

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Ingrampba

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Apr 15, 2020
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6
My wings are not installed, and the flaps/ailerons are not installedo n the wings. They are all covered as well.

If you PM me your e-mail address I will send you what I have.

If you can locate any nearby builder of an Avid Flyer or Kitfox, I believe the Ridge Runner is very very close in construction, such that the Avid or KF buider will know exactly what goes where for most of it.

The Avid/KF flaperons are different than the RR flaps and ailerons... all the rigging of those controls will be totally different.
Thank you for the help. This RR has had some of the work done prior to it arriving at my shop. It still has a long way to go though. Now that I have a manual again, I can get it finished.
 

Jsample40

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Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Western North Carolina
Fellow Ridge Runner Rascals: No experience with RR2, but am presently restoring a RR1. Live in WNC and have been going thru tedious upgrades & safety corrections to prepare for flight. I feel that this "Wannabee STOL aircraft" will suffice for pure pleasure local flying. No help from Stace Schrader.... heard he was nearly killed while on kit delivery in NC (auto accident). We are on our own folks. Installed a KFM 107ER twin cylinder horizontally opposed 25 hp electric start 2 cycle engine on mine. Glad to help if I can with past experience/ advice.
 

Jsample40

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Jan 18, 2020
Messages
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Location
Western North Carolina
Victor/ Bravo & Ingrampba:
I acquired a Ridge Runner I recently... with a construction manual amounting to approx. 70 pages (many printed both sides) which includes multiple parts list pages. Assuming no "emergency rush" required, I am willing to have my manual copied at Office Depot and send it to either or both of you new RR owners if desired. In return I will expect to have you cover my copy costs and shipping which will be priority mail (USPS).
I have spent several months going thru the entire aircraft and remedying a multitude of issues & errors by the original owner. Brought in a pro to inspect the entire aircraft and provide me with a written list of corrections needed. Grant Smith (Jedi) was kind enough to assist me with advice, including suggestion to check for Toe In which can adversely affect directional stability during take off & landing.
Am now in the initial stages of taxi training & ground handling practice... kinda like trying to herd cats (LOL).
Jay Sample
 

Victor Bravo

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Jul 30, 2014
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KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Yes I would definitely like to have the manual... the one I have is missing several pages, it was probably copied "one-side" without the double-sided pages included.

The "original" manual I have appears to have been done (by Rocky Mountain Wings) as a bootleg copy of a Sky Raider manual. Although it has a bunch of stuff about Rocky Mountain Wings, there are several mentions of "Sky Raider" in it, and many of the photos show Sky Raider logos on the upholstery, etc. Hilarious!

I have heard a couple of (unverified) stories that the instruction manual was not the only component that one of the brothers "borrowed" from the other after they split up. Entire Sky Raider fuselages were (reportedly) quietly taken from the Flying K facility, and then became Ridge Runner kits sold by RMW.
 

Bill-Higdon

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Feb 6, 2011
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570
Location
Salem, Oregon, USA
Yes I would definitely like to have the manual... the one I have is missing several pages, it was probably copied "one-side" without the double-sided pages included.

The "original" manual I have appears to have been done (by Rocky Mountain Wings) as a bootleg copy of a Sky Raider manual. Although it has a bunch of stuff about Rocky Mountain Wings, there are several mentions of "Sky Raider" in it, and many of the photos show Sky Raider logos on the upholstery, etc. Hilarious!

I have heard a couple of (unverified) stories that the instruction manual was not the only component that one of the brothers "borrowed" from the other after they split up. Entire Sky Raider fuselages were (reportedly) quietly taken from the Flying K facility, and then became Ridge Runner kits sold by RMW.
HAving lived in another part of Idaho with similar politics etc, yeah it can get interesting
 

Victor Bravo

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"I will take credit for being the GIB (Guy In Back)."


Wow... :) I would have been very worried if you guys had tried to fly it in that configuration, I can't imagine being able to have "full, free and clear" use of the controls.
 

jedi

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Aug 8, 2009
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1,999
Location
Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
"I will take credit for being the GIB (Guy In Back)."


Wow... :) I would have been very worried if you guys had tried to fly it in that configuration, I can't imagine being able to have "full, free and clear" use of the controls.
The GIF (Front guy perhaps 6' 4") wanted to know if he would fit so he was encouraged to climb in. Once he was in I decided to see if the two of us could fit. It was "amazingly comfortable" in back and the Cessna BSFIFO rule was applied (Back Seat First In First Out).

I was working with Stace (at Sun n Fun I believe) at the time. I only met the GIF that one time and we agreed that if the front seat were "Adjusted" the plane could work for him. Adjusted = move to the rear and recline more. I have several hours in that plane and liked it but had a few suggestions for improvements. It would be a good candidate for the O-100 Pegasus. At one time he installed the Hexadine and that was sweet. I liked the Hexadyne P60 engine (Hexadyne) if only someone would address the issues and get serious about production.
 
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Victor Bravo

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If you still have any relationship or access to Stace, and you can get him to do me one small favor, there's a prime rib dinner in it for you.... but my understanding is that he won't speak to anyone about the Ridge Runner for any reason. All I want is a letter saying that this one was kit serial number XYZ and the kit met the 51% rule. The original purchaser was a guy from Los Angeles named Leonard Alogna, he had a guy named Kelly Quick build it for him.

Anything you can remember about the flight characteristics, handling quirks, etc. is of great interest. I'm not afraid of it, and like any old model builder I am assuming it flies the way it looks, but actual hands-on experience is worth a thousand assumptions.

And yes, although I will fly it with the 503 that's on it, I do have direct intentions to put an O-100 on it when I get mine.
 

WarpedWing

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Jul 17, 2015
Messages
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Location
Ocala, FL
Can you take some photos of the flap cable install on this? I have the model 3 and the build manual is for dirt! That's a nice way of saying S@#$. It is a model 1 maunual with notes all over it to change wording and photos for updating. I have emailed and called untill I am blue in the face for help. Stace is notorious for NEVER returning calls or emails. Unless you have cash in hand and want to buy a kit, he will not acknowledge your existence. Since the Yahoo builders group got kicked in the teeth by yahoo and deleted ALL the photos people have posted it is difficult to locate anyone anymore for mutual assistance.

Hope you can help.

Tom
 

Victor Bravo

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Haven't installed the flap controls yet. I literally had to cut 2 or 3 inches off of the end of one of the flaps to be able to fold the wings. I now have to re-run the cables.

What I have figured out is that they use a cable to lower the flaps, and a small return spring to keep the flaps back up when there is no air load on them. There is no "up" cable on the flaps.
 

Pops

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Haven't installed the flap controls yet. I literally had to cut 2 or 3 inches off of the end of one of the flaps to be able to fold the wings. I now have to re-run the cables.

What I have figured out is that they use a cable to lower the flaps, and a small return spring to keep the flaps back up when there is no air load on them. There is no "up" cable on the flaps.
Same as the flaps on the 4 seat Bearhawk. Piper Tri-Pacer I think.
 

WarpedWing

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Jul 17, 2015
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Location
Ocala, FL
Yea, I know that they use one cable per flap. My problem is the parts in the kit has two small 1 1/2 inch pulleys (one for each side to guide them down to the flap handle). So far so good. Now, just where the hell do they mount? There is not one mount/bracket for them anywhere. The manual give "zero" information, instruction or photos about the installation or routing. Typical for my build manual. My manual is for the RR1. Yep the RR1, its not specific to to the RR3. It has notes all throughout it about changes needed to be made to bring it up to date. It is a photo copy of a photo copy ad nausea. Of course, Stace at RMW does not and will not answer emails or phone calls. I was hoping to find another builder that has tackled this problem prior to me. Since Yahoo groups became just an email tree, there is no way to locate builders except through forums like this. So far not much luck.

My brother in-law and I are making some good progress so far but this seems to be one of the biggest obstacles we have run into so far. This is the first tube and rag I have worked on. I am a sheet metal guy but, this has been a fun little project. We seem to go in spurts now and then. We go like gang busters and then stall, then repeat. Unfortunately my sister in law passed a few weeks ago and it has been tough trying to get my brother in law motivated. If we can get this sticking point tackled I am sure we can get back on track.
 

Victor Bravo

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Well, WarpedWing...

I spent just about the whole !(#&*$ day trying to figure this out. Both for you and for me.

The way I believe it was designed to work (for my RidgeRunner Model 2) is as follows:

(looking primarily at the port side of the rear cabin section, standing just behind the port side wing root)

The flap "down" cables come out of the wing root rib in a spanwise direction, heading inboard. They are housed in a flexible cable sheath / Bowden Cable Housing just like a bicycle or motorcycle control cable. The cable/sheath makes a 90 degree turn downward (toward the flap handle) just after the cable/sheath assembly passes over the upper fuselage longeron "V-tube". The bottom end of the sheath terminates/nests in a very small steel tube welded (vertically) onto the rear seatback cross-tube. The cable exits the sheath at that small steel tube,a nd the cable extends downward to the rear of the flap handle actuator arm. There are no pulleys involved in the fuselage for the flap cable routing.

When I initially looked at it, my reaction was "but... but... there has to be some sort of pulley, bellcrank, or something to change the direction of this cable from spanwise to vertically down (to the flap handle).... where the !)#*$ are the pulleys? Where the !(#*$ are the welded mounting ears for pulleys to be installed??? How the !(#*% did this airplane fly without the flaps being hooked up? "

I started making plans to mount pulleys on the upper longeron / V-tube. Welding pulley mount tabs, or mounting something to the tubes with Adel clamps to support a pulley bracket. Spent 3 hours screwing with that idea, made a pulley support, fabricated one of the custom Adel clamps, cut a slit in the fabric to mount the Adel clamp around the tube.

But I realized that if I did mount pulleys on the top of that longeron, folding the wings would result in the wing root rib shearing the pulleys off of the longeron tubes.

About then one of my airport friends showed up and I explained what was going on, and that something was very very wrong. He just innocently said "well, what about if instead of a pulley they had put a cable sheath there on the longeron to allow the cable to make that 90 degree turn without a pulley sticking up high enough to interfere with the wing folding?"

That answered several questions. It would allow the cable to turn 90 degrees. It would not interfere with the wing folding. It would explain why there was no pulley mounting tabs welded on the frame. It would explain why there was a return spring instead of a flap "up" cable run.

So after a whole day of not understanding how the flaps could possibly have been designed to work, it all finally made sense. There's not supposed to be a pulley or pulleys, the cable is guided by carefully arranged Bowden Cable sheaths that can move back and forth a little biut as the wings fold or unfold, and the cable is adjusted to become tight when the wings are unfolded. The cable sheath cannot be zip-tied or taped to the tube framework in certain areas because the sheath and cable has to move through a range of motion as the wings are folded.

The only pulleys in the flap system are at the trailing edge of the wings in front of the flap control horn.
 
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WarpedWing

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Jul 17, 2015
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Ocala, FL
I have the flap pulleys to mount inside the wing (they mount on the rear spar) for actual actuation of the flap down movement. That is pretty straight forward. So, after reading your post reply I think I have it figured it out for the RR3, thanks to your observations. The original builder for this kit (not only built the wings (wrong) he installed the rear throttle assembly on the flap pivot bracket. It's hard to fault him considering the lousy build manual. It's not to say he did not make mistakes. He did. The wings were poorly built. We had to completely rebuild them.

On our fuselage, there is the flap handle pivot mount and (low and behold) two pivot mounts (supposedly for the two small pulleys). I wonder how he mistook this for the throttle mount area? It would be nice to have a manual that addresses each step of a build in a logical manner. Not so with RMW. I think the FAA when they approve a kit for the 51% rule would mandate a manual with such detail. Not "here's your parts. Put them on. Where? Oh. you'll figure it out." I will have to do as you did and run it through my minds eye from beginning to end.

On the Yahoo builders group there was a guy who had a hard landing due to a flap handle breaking on him on final. He damaged his airplane to the point he had to rebuild substantial portion of his airframe and gear. He posted pictures of the flap system and of course the handle itself. His was one of the early model 3's. His handle had no reinforcement inside the handle. His situation made me aware of something to inspect and correct if needed. Fortunately, our handle is reinforced.

Thanks for your help on this. I appreciate it beyond your imagination. I have included a link to our builders log. I know photos can aid in troubled times when the brain locks up and you stand there scratching your head. Feel free to IM or PM any time.

Thomas Hudgins & Carroll Drake - Experimental Aircraft Builder's Log
 
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