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Jak Stoller

Active Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Portland Oregon, USA
Picture if you will, yourself sitting facing a wall, your feet stuck flat against it and your knees bent a bit. You push with your _left leg_ keeping your right leg bent, your butt rotates counterclockwise (from a looking down position) turning your face.... Left. You turn your steering wheel left... you go left. steering a horse? Pull left go left. You're not running in an airplane, your piloting it. In a taildragger aircraft (as most early aircraft types were) this makes the most reasonable way of rigging and controlling the plane, especially since your rudder is usually in the ass end of the plane. Now tricycle type it is (from a logical push-directional-force stance) backwards, but your rudder is still (usually) in the back, and it doesn't make sense for your nose to steer opposite of your rudder.

--Jak
 

BDD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Messages
388
Location
WI
Picture if you will, yourself sitting facing a wall, your feet stuck flat against it and your knees bent a bit. You push with your _left leg_ keeping your right leg bent, your butt rotates counterclockwise (from a looking down position) turning your face.... Left. You turn your steering wheel left... you go left. steering a horse? Pull left go left. You're not running in an airplane, your piloting it. In a taildragger aircraft (as most early aircraft types were) this makes the most reasonable way of rigging and controlling the plane, especially since your rudder is usually in the ass end of the plane. Now tricycle type it is (from a logical push-directional-force stance) backwards, but your rudder is still (usually) in the back, and it doesn't make sense for your nose to steer opposite of your rudder.

--Jak
I don't know if pushing your left foot forward causes you to look left but the conventional control set up would also agree with using left and right brakes. Otherwise you would be using left foot to turn the rudder right and, naturally, the right foot to apply braking force to the right wheel. They should agree. Using the right foot for right rudder and the left foot for left rudder doesn't seem unnatural to me. The same applies to the ailerons and roll direction.
 

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,741
Location
Fresno, California
I doubt if there was any ergonomic logic used. I suspect it was done simply for the reason that a cable could be run from the pedals to the rudder control horns without crossing the cables. Simplicity rules. Sled and soapbox derby steering also follows a model of simplicity.

Bruce :)
 

sneddenm7

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Near Zanesville, Ohio
A really cool article by Patrick Panzera about the Snedden M7 ultralight appears in the August edition of Experimenter. The great photos are from the EAA at AirVenture 2009
http://eaa.org/experimenter/

The electronic version of EXPERIMENTER, is a monthly e-newsletter developed as a joint initiative between EAA and CONTACT! Magazine, expressly for individuals like you who have an interest in learning about building as well as flying experimental aircraft.

The August edition can be found by clicking on “Issues”.
Additionally you can, for the time being, get a free monthly subscription by clicking on the green button.

Andy
 

sneddenm7

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Near Zanesville, Ohio

Here is a great article by Grant Smith about the Snedden M7 ultralight that appears in the February, 2010 issue of EAA Sport Aviation Magazine.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201002/?pg=22&pm=2&u1=friend#pg22
There is some commentary on page (6) by Interim Director of Publications and Editor Mary Jones.
The illustrations by Nick Hanson at EAA in Oshkosh show the M7 handlebar control system that was a topic of considerable discussion in www.homebuiltairplanes.com . The M7 pedals have long been replaced by a straight aluminum all thread foot peg bar that pivots with the front wheel steering post to control only the front wheel steering in a push left or skew right to ground steer right direction like the handlebar control direction. All flight control is now in the handlebars only, as demonstrated at Oshkosh EAA AirVenture 2009.
The great photos by Tim Gaffney who made a special trip from Dayton, Ohio are more current than the original pre-Oshkosh photos. More of Tim’s M7 photos can be seen here: http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=286
The tail has been raised a total of (14) inches (9 and then 5) and the upper tail boom has been lengthened (12) inches. The Magnum parachute pack will ultimately be relocated to its fourth and final trial position in the L.H. wing root in direct symmetrical opposition to the blue fuel tank which is in the R.H. wing root. Three high visibility changes and some less noticeable ones are planned ahead of the pontoon and parachute relocation.
The great article by Patrick Panzera in the EAA Experimenter (ref. previous HBA post #64) is still available by clicking on the link http://eaa.org/experimenter/ then “Issues” then “August 2009”. Or http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-08_snedden.asp
Of the many videos taken, my favorite is by Dave Loveman:
http://www.lightsportaircraft.ca/volume3-issue29/webcast-2/
More information can be found thru a Google search for Snedden M7.
One expected impractical yet irresistible and perhaps a never before done experiment can be seen on You Tube Snedden M7 static flight test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZi1fzwib0
Both airplane propellers turned in the same direction. It would have looked a lot better with a taller post behind a larger twin engine airplane and an attach point closer to the M7 center of lift. We have other more exciting experiments planned.

Andy
 

sneddenm7

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
21
Location
Near Zanesville, Ohio

Here is a great article by Grant Smith about the Snedden M7 ultralight that appears in the February, 2010 issue of EAA Sport Aviation Magazine.
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201002/?pg=22&pm=2&u1=friend#pg22
There is some commentary on page (6) by Interim Director of Publications and Editor Mary Jones.
The illustrations by Nick Hanson at EAA in Oshkosh show the M7 handlebar control system that was a topic of considerable discussion in www.homebuiltairplanes.com . The M7 pedals have long been replaced by a straight aluminum all thread foot peg bar that pivots with the front wheel steering post to control only the front wheel steering in a push left or skew right to ground steer right direction like the handlebar control direction. All flight control is now in the handlebars only, as demonstrated at Oshkosh EAA AirVenture 2009.
The great photos by Tim Gaffney who made a special trip from Dayton, Ohio are more current than the original pre-Oshkosh photos. More of Tim’s M7 photos can be seen here: http://www.eaa.org/apps/galleries/gallery.aspx?ID=286
The tail has been raised a total of (14) inches (9 and then 5) and the upper tail boom has been lengthened (12) inches. The Magnum parachute pack will ultimately be relocated to its fourth and final trial position in the L.H. wing root in direct symmetrical opposition to the blue fuel tank which is in the R.H. wing root. Three high visibility changes and some less noticeable ones are planned ahead of the pontoon and parachute relocation.
The great article by Patrick Panzera in the EAA Experimenter (ref. previous HBA post #64) is still available by clicking on the link http://eaa.org/experimenter/ then “Issues” then “August 2009”. Or http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-08_snedden.asp
Of the many videos taken, my favorite is by Dave Loveman:
http://www.lightsportaircraft.ca/volume3-issue29/webcast-2/
More information can be found thru a Google search for Snedden M7.
One expected impractical yet irresistible and perhaps a never before done experiment can be seen on You Tube Snedden M7 static flight test. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raZi1fzwib0
Both airplane propellers turned in the same direction. It would have looked a lot better with a taller post behind a larger twin engine airplane and an attach point closer to the M7 center of lift. We have other more exciting experiments planned.

Andy
 
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