Modern day "motorcycle of the air" aircraft class?

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by cluttonfred, Oct 3, 2015.

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  1. Oct 7, 2015 #121

    Tiger Tim

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  2. Oct 7, 2015 #122

    RPM314

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    We're talking about this point and how it will eventually fatigue and kill the pilot, you dog. ;)
    Airbike.png
    I don't get how I was being ambiguous though.
     
  3. Oct 7, 2015 #123

    rtfm

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    ...eventually fatigue and kill the pilot? Sounds pretty ambiguous to me... :)
     
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  4. Oct 7, 2015 #124

    Starjumper7

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    Yes, its the compact tail end that makes it so nice !! :D

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  5. Oct 7, 2015 #125

    Starjumper7

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    Not if its a single tube keel frame with fiberglass skin !!
     
  6. Oct 7, 2015 #126

    RPM314

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    Oi vey.
     
  7. Oct 7, 2015 #127

    Starjumper7

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    This is the feeling we're after. Sitting on the wing.

    ... fast, low altitude, naked ...

    AvAtAr-avatar-19954098-1973-1110.jpg
     
  8. Oct 7, 2015 #128

    RPM314

    RPM314

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    Wait a minute...those chins on the dragon things......

    Burt Rutan designed their yaw control!
     
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  9. Oct 7, 2015 #129

    rtfm

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    If sitting ON the wing is what you're after, what better than this:
    43809d1444131405-modern-day-motorcycle-air-aircraft-class-flyingmotorcycle_3.jpg

    It's about as motorcycle-esque as you can get. And WAY cool...

    Duncan
     
  10. Oct 7, 2015 #130

    Starjumper7

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    Inspired by the ancient legendary Banshee warriors.

    What was this about lack of styling on aircraft?

    With this you could lean forward for high speeds and sit up straight for 'regular' speeds.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
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  11. Oct 7, 2015 #131

    rtfm

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    Starjumper, I think you have a really nice looking design here. If you're going for ease (hence, inexpensive, quick) of construction, consider a rectangular wing. One template for the ribs. Easy as. I would also build in a seat back, and fair it in to the aft fuse. Doesn't have to be big. And it would still look very sleek.

    Duncan
     
  12. Oct 7, 2015 #132

    DangerZone

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    :D

    With such a small tail close to the fuselage being in the body wake, it would have very litle authority. That's why the Cri Cri has a T tail, to get above the thrust lines and the canopy turbulence.

    The performance of the Cri Cri without a canopy would depend on power. The Cri Cri is a great little airplane that flies on low powered engines consuming very little fuel because it has pretty decent and well designed aerodynamics. Lose the canopy and you would need about double the power to have the same performance. Which with motorcycle engines isn't hard to achieve, just add a twist of the wrist.

    The canopy does not have to be fully closed to achieve pretty good aerodynamics. With a clever design you might get away with very little additional drag like on racing motorcycles. Thus to answer that question you are on the right track, cause imagination and clever ideas allow new concepts. However, there are usually very few 'new' concepts that haven't been tried before, like in the picture of Tiger Tim whch is quite close to what you had in mind... ;)

    The Hayabusa might be a bit overkill, there are plenty of good 100HPish motorcycle engines from the 80s&90s with a shaft drive that could be used. Get a longer used shaft from a racing car on e-bay, add a centrifugal clutch on it with a prop hub and there you go with least investment. Many of those engines had cylinder head oiling and cooling, you might want to chose one with such design.

    Now, that's much better. :)

    How about getting rid of the twin booms and protruding the tail srufaces from thebottom of the fuselage and the wing from the top? If seating 'inside' the wing with the pilot's back seated on the wingspar you might have good foundations for an excellent design... ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  13. Oct 7, 2015 #133

    DangerZone

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    If a person wants to save time and not do the ribs in plywood/foam/whatever by hand on a bandsaw then a printer might be a solution for easy and fast making of tapered ribs.

    [video=youtube;Yz10C0U6tM0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz10C0U6tM0[/video]

    However, a skilled homebuilder might cut out all the ribs of a tapered wing in one single day on the bandsaw.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  14. Oct 7, 2015 #134

    cluttonfred

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    Glad to see this still going, I like Starjumper7's sketch with or without the girl and despite my usual "keep it simple" mantra I think the tapered wing might be justified here.

    I still have mixed feelings about a head-forward racing motorcycle seating position and how that would work in terms of a seat harness. I know motorcycles don't have one but I would feel pretty uneasy without one a few thousand feet in the air.

    I know I mocked the BMW C1 semi-enclosed motorcycyle, and it's certainly not as sexy as riding hunched over on a ninja bike, but I don't know how you would wear a safely harness in racing position.

    480-HiRe.jpg

    This does also bring to mind that an open-sided aircraft designed for minimum drag and buffeting with no dies but with optional doors for cold climates might be an interesting approach as well. Air-scooter rather than Air-bike?
     
  15. Oct 7, 2015 #135
    I spent about 2 months once working out an engine geometry that would give me linear motion (ie. I could use a pair of opposing pistons rigidly connected). Yes, somebody had already come up with the same solution I did - in 1877 - The Parsons Epicyclic Engine.
    Check the animations (about 2/3 down the page).
     
  16. Oct 7, 2015 #136

    cluttonfred

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    I sure hope we could come up with something better looking that that. I wish James Wiebe much success, but that thing is hideous.
     
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  17. Oct 7, 2015 #137

    DangerZone

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    If we're talking about a single seater, the seating position can be variable. On custom bikes there is an option to make the bike 'triseating'. I tried it on a bike years ago, ergonomically it can work great. Custom bikes are usually exposed so at highers speeds it is good to have an additional seating option to better adapt to speed and riding regimes. This is an animation where one could get the idea what a 'triseating' option on a bike is.

    [video=youtube;LHo6c7w2TWY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHo6c7w2TWY[/video]

    The upright position in the video is a bit exaggerated because the final standing ramps usually have much 'milder' angles but this is only for people to get the idea how this is done.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  18. Oct 7, 2015 #138

    rtfm

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    I have to agree with you, on all three counts.

    Duncan
     
  19. Oct 7, 2015 #139

    ultralajt

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    Interesting, how much we are ready to talk, discuss, and brings all sorts of visions and ideas (look how fast this tread grow) about the vehicle, we all know somwhere in the back of the minds, that it will never became reality.... :)
    I suppose, we all like to dream.... :)

    I am very much attempted to model my idea (hand drawn sketch some pages back) in 3D computer graphics, just to bring 2d idea to "3D life". ;) :p
     
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  20. Oct 7, 2015 #140

    erkki67

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    There are a few motorcycle style designs out there, or which might be worth to be reengineerd!
    - Belite's SkyDock with a narrower Fuselage
    - the existing ZJ- Viera
    - some of Beaujon's designs
    - Cloudster
    - F-U.... Design of Topspeed100
    - Aeromax
    - POC of Ivanovaero
    - Airbike
    - Hovey Whing Ding and Betabird
    - Windy3

    Anyway, for a good looking sit on top bird, that is affordable to build and easy to fly, my ideal would be something like the fuselage construction, not the design, like the Hovey Beta Bird and the Windy 3 and a wooden lowwing like the Viera.

    Further the wings should be either foldable or quick removing.

    If the design requires a fixed or retractable gear that would be fine but not necessary.
     

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