Flying illegally!

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Merlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
53
I know many (most) of you are Americans flaying under the part 103 ultralight rule but over here in Europe they really like papperwork.
i'm not a big fan of that, i think flying is about freedom (within reason ofc).
realistically what do i risk for flying an unregistered aircraft with no pilot license? Assuming that i stay withing the unregulated airspace.
 
Last edited:

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,371
Location
Memphis, TN
If you get caught? Double whammy no license in plane and person? I bet in Europe, you would loose your aircraft and maximum fine. Side losses might be loosing your job or jail depending on country. It’s going to depend on the country. If you are friendly enough, you could probably talk your way out in Italy, they might get a laugh at it, but they are going to make you an example in Germany. Without a pilots license you could evade. I would not try it with an unregistered aircraft. Heck , you might become a target for the tail number spotters. The white elephant to catch. That would put you at the top of wanted list.
 

Pilot-34

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2020
Messages
1,262
Location
Most of me is in IL but my hearts in Alaska
I have met a guy whose family had purchased an early model piper(pa14 ?) for the family farm in Alaska And had never licensed it or anybody in the family.
The story goes that while on a flight over cook inlet it split a crankshaft ,he had to declare an emergency and land Ted Stevens international airport.
The story goes that after parking the aircraft he removed all his personal items and walked away.
 

Turd Ferguson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
5,713
Location
Upper midwest in a house
In the US, if you fly an unregistered airplane with no pilot license, the FAA will tell you to stop. After ~3 last warnings or else, they will get law enforcement involved and you could end up in prison.

In the US there are a few prosecutions per yr for someone flying without a pilot's license but the background varies. Many times it's people that had a pilots license at one time and it was revoked.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,371
Location
Memphis, TN
Flying in the US does not bring that much attention, and there is plenty of space. Europe, automatically people perk up and wonder how much money you got and pay attention. Some little hamlet and appears an airplane, people are curious. You can possibly bust borders way easier. These countries want their tax money and they will have their hand out. It just escalated because you are not in the system.
 

proppastie

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
5,229
Location
NJ
problem is if anyone sees you or you have a problem where they will see you.....aviation is a very small community and "people talk"....there will be someone around that believes the rules are sacred and could easily turn you in.....its easy to make a mistake and cut someone off, or be seen flying where a flight plan is required as I understand in many parts of Europe.....You might search the net for your country to see if there are any violations documented and then you might see the potential.
 

Dana

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 3, 2007
Messages
10,044
Location
CT, USA
In Alaska there are many unlicensed pilots and unregistered airplanes... I've heard 50% though that's probably an exaggeration.

I suspect 75% or more of ultralights are overweight (and thus "unregistered aircraft" with an unlicensed pilot), but nobody's checking.

When I was living in NJ there was an old guy with a Stearman that he'd been flying for years, he sold rides in it. He was a good pilot, but was well known that he never had anything beyond a student certificate.
 

Merlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
53
problem is if anyone sees you or you have a problem where they will see you.....aviation is a very small community and "people talk"....there will be someone around that believes the rules are sacred and could easily turn you in.....its easy to make a mistake and cut someone off, or be seen flying where a flight plan is required as I understand in many parts of Europe.....You might search the net for your country to see if there are any violations documented and then you might see the potential.
I should specify that i will only do backcoutry flying and wont be using any airport. I'll be taking off and landing from empty fields.
 

Mark Schoening

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
124
Location
KRHI
Used to live Little town with grass strip, very rural. On a nice sunny Sun morning, a joke was played - somebody mentioned the FAA was coming .
It's said you could see hanger doors slamming shut all up and down the flight line, and a steady stream of guys headed for the local restaurant (on the field)
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
2,086
Location
Canada
Start by painting your airplane really boring colors. Blur numbers and letters where most airplanes have registration numbers. Make those numbers two percent lighter than surrounding greys and greens.
Next install a realllllllly slow-turning propeller that makes hardly any noise. Thirdly, install the fanciest Swiss exhaust muffler.
Fourth, only fly at dawn ... low ... over forests ... Flying in miserable weather (rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog, etc.) will also limit witnesses.
Fifth, only fly from your personal grass airstrip on your 200 acre estate. Promptly hide your airplane in a barn immediately after landing.
 

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
2,279
Location
YMM
I know many (most) of you are Americans flaying under the part 103 ultralight rule but over here in Europe they really like papperwork.
i'm not a big fan of that, i think flying is about freedom (within reason ofc).
realistically what do i risk for flying an unregistered aircraft with no pilot license? Assuming that i stay withing the unregulated airspace.
If you're in europe, think best route is probably to take a long hard look at Hang glider rules. Looks like they're still largely de-regulated, but have a foot launched rule...
 

malte

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2011
Messages
142
Location
Flensburg / Germany
Where in Europe? Unlike the US, Europe is far from harmonised in Law. Also, since microlights are regulated nationally, it makes a big difference if you are located in Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Slowakia, Italy, Austria....
 

Merlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
53
Where in Europe? Unlike the US, Europe is far from harmonised in Law. Also, since microlights are regulated nationally, it makes a big difference if you are located in Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Slowakia, Italy, Austria....
France, but i plan to travel to neighbor countries, like Spain and Italy
 
Last edited:

cluttonfred

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
8,564
Location
World traveler
France is one of the most microlight-friendly countries around. I did my microlight license (brevet ULM) fifteen or so years ago and really enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere of the microlight clubs, the grass strips, etc. The exam was a written test, multiple choice, the practical test was done by my own instructor, and my license is good for life. Folks in neighboring countries often register and store their aircraft in France because there is less paperwork. I don't see why you'd want to be an "outlaw" pilot in France as the system is not onerous at all.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,371
Location
Memphis, TN
If you want to play by the rules and don’t have some disqualifying issue, would be a qualifier. If it’s not all your property that you are flying on, someone will see you. A kid will be excited to see it and tell mom or a hiker, then it runs through the local village. Some but-head will sounding the alarm. Most don’t really care, but there is always one. If you kill yourself, it just gives more power to the naysayers to clamp down more.
 

D Hillberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
1,394
Location
very low low low earth orbit
In 40+ years seen a few persons who had no certificate, medical, Registration, nothing. Flying all over.
Ran a few N numbers and found expired registrations, wrong registrations or just numbers and false registrations. Flying.
They don't advertise , Rule one - Don't crash and blend in to the crowd.
Some are **** good pilots not a real hazard

and then we have guys with certificates out the wazoo making smoking holes with famous victims & the 737 MAX.

As an FAA bud who long since retired said
"Not enough complexity points" & "I now got a fancy badge, If they give me a gun I'll quit"
common sense isn't too common.
We have enough useless regulations and 'minimum' standards...
 
Top