Flying illegally!

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Merlin

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France is one of the most microlight-friendly countries around. I did my microlight license (brevet ULM) fifteen or so years ago and really enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere of the microlight clubs, the grass strips, etc. The exam was a written test, multiple choice, the practical test was done by my own instructor, and my license is good for life. Folks in neighboring countries often register and store their aircraft in France because there is less paperwork. I don't see why you'd want to be an "outlaw" pilot in France as the system is not onerous at all.
Not as friendly as you think, you need a a lisence to fly a microlight that alone will set you around 5k€ you also need to register your aircraft and have pay an insurence.
Thats allot to pay to fly an airplane that cost 1500€ to build and fly it just for fun.
 

cblink.007

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I know many (most) of you are Americans flaying under the part 103 ultralight rule but over here in Europe they really like papperwork.
i'm not a big fan of that, i think flying is about freedom (within reason ofc).
realistically what do i risk for flying an unregistered aircraft with no pilot license? Assuming that i stay withing the unregulated airspace.
This is the wrong forum to ask. Go discuss the matter with an attorney.
 

proppastie

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fly it just for fun.
well if you can build an aircraft you should be able to earn the money necessary ......I would add you are potentially missing lots of the fun...... flying around to different places with several of like minded aviators. Showing off your bird and building skills at fly-ins...... impressing girls.....what a pickup line ....."wanna see the aircraft I built ?"
 

cluttonfred

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First, I don't just think, I know how friendly France is toward microlights. I have already earned a French microlight license and have lived in France on and off for 30 years. Second, exactly what microlight can you point to that can be built and flown for 1,500 euros? I think your numbers are off and you don't have a very realistic perspective on any of this.

My house is near Lyon, which is a fairly expensive part of France, but microlight time with instructor can easily be found for about 110 euros wet per hour. Add to that the cost of joining a club and other miscellaneous costs and the 30-40 hours typically needed to earn the license, and yes, you're looking at about 5,000 euros all in. If you think that's expensive, don't even look at the cost of a PPL.

5,000 euros for the license and 5,000 euros for a second-hand basic single-seat microlight are probably good numbers to start with. If you can come up with 5,000 euros initially for your training and then set aside 2,500 euros per year, so about 50 euros per week, then basic, low-cost microlight flying is a viable hobby in France. If you can't, then it's not, and I would point you toward paragliding as a far less expensive way to get in the air.

I currently live in the USA, where Part 103 means a license and registration are not required within certain limitations (much more restrictive than for a single-seat microlight in France). That said, only an idiot would fly without instruction. There are people that do it, but it's usually a self-correcting mistake. I would say that the numbers above would also hold for getting into ultralight flying in the USA, though perhaps in USD instead of EUR and with a little less in the instruction.

Not as friendly as you think, you need a a lisence to fly a microlight that alone will set you around 5k€ you also need to register your aircraft and have pay an insurence.
Thats allot to pay to fly an airplane that cost 1500€ to build and fly it just for fun.
 
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Topaz

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Not as friendly as you think, you need a a lisence to fly a microlight that alone will set you around 5k€ you also need to register your aircraft and have pay an insurence.
Thats allot to pay to fly an airplane that cost 1500€ to build and fly it just for fun.
Flying without any proper flight training will cost you a lot more than five thousand euros. The likelihood is that you and your 1,500€ airplane become permanent fixtures in the soil of one of those "empty fields," and you won't have to worry about "getting caught" ever again.

Saving money for good reasons is one thing. This is quite another.
 

Dan Thomas

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Flying without any proper flight training will cost you a lot more than five thousand euros. The likelihood is that you and your 1,500€ airplane become permanent fixtures in the soil of one of those "empty fields," and you won't have to worry about "getting caught" ever again.

Saving money for good reasons is one thing. This is quite another.
Yup. "Unlicensed" usually means "untrained" and lacking the aeronautical theory that makes the difference between flying safely and killing yourself. We occasionally read of the non-pilot that steals an airplane and takes off and sooner or later loses control of it and crashes, often dying in the wreck. This is in contrast to the unlicensed guys that took ground school and some pilot training and are flying for years without any license. Not the same thing at all.

There's illegal, and there's stupid.
 

BBerson

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Nothing illegal about flying with a student certificate after a few hours of dual and a sign off.
 

Hephaestus

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Nothing illegal about flying with a student certificate after a few hours of dual and a sign off.
Not fully aware of FAA rules - but isn't the student license usually have that "Under instructors supervision" caveat, meaning each flight needs to be 'supervised' by a CFI.
 

BBerson

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Not fully aware of FAA rules - but isn't the student license usually have that "Under instructors supervision" caveat, meaning each flight needs to be 'supervised' by a CFI.
I think only cross country flights need approval/supervision. And the 90 day log signoff to be legal.
 

Daleandee

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Judas Priest

Breaking the Law “You don’t know what it’s like”

The only way I will fly!!!!!
That might not fly (pun intended) if you listen to the Bobby Fuller Four

"I fought the law and the law won" :fear:
 

TFF

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Unless it’s your brother in law, no one will sign a 90 day without a checkout ride. Especially not for years to come. The only way to skirt this is if you have a license in one class and get signed off to solo in another. No limit on time then because you are a pilot, just not the right pilot.
 

rollerball

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As someone who lives and flies in France I'd suggest that you're being baited and this is a troll thread. So the poster expects to fly in 'neighbor' countries like Spain and Italy. That's an awful lot of flying just going between the borders. Impossible without attracting attention because of the need to obtain local support for fuel etc as any fool would know. And without 'insurence' (nice spelling mistake for a Frenchman except he'd be used to writing 'assurance' so would be unlikely to make such an error). And I've never heard or seen any Frenchman using or writing the expression 'allot' which is solely an unerudite Americanism and is never used by Europeans.
I'm tempted to ask, 'is that you Rick?' (he'll know who I mean if it's him).
 

Yellowhammer

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As someone who lives and flies in France I'd suggest that you're being baited and this is a troll thread. So the poster expects to fly in 'neighbor' countries like Spain and Italy. That's an awful lot of flying just going between the borders. Impossible without attracting attention because of the need to obtain local support for fuel etc as any fool would know. And without 'insurence' (nice spelling mistake for a Frenchman except he'd be used to writing 'assurance' so would be unlikely to make such an error). And I've never heard or seen any Frenchman using or writing the expression 'allot' which is solely an unerudite Americanism and is never used by Europeans.
I'm tempted to ask, 'is that you Rick?' (he'll know who I mean if it's him).

Agreed. He is probably from the US and trying to ascertain information incognito.
 

Yellowhammer

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In 40+ years seen a few persons who had no certificate, medical, Registration, nothing. Flying all over.
Ran a few N numbers and found expired registrations, wrong registrations or just numbers and false registrations. Flying.
They don't advertise , Rule one - Don't crash and blend in to the crowd.
Some are **** good pilots not a real hazard

and then we have guys with certificates out the wazoo making smoking holes with famous victims & the 737 MAX.

As an FAA bud who long since retired said
"Not enough complexity points" & "I now got a fancy badge, If they give me a gun I'll quit"
common sense isn't too common.
We have enough useless regulations and 'minimum' standards...

HERE HERE!
 

PredragVasic

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In 40+ years seen a few persons who had no certificate, medical, Registration, nothing. Flying all over.
Ran a few N numbers and found expired registrations, wrong registrations or just numbers and false registrations. Flying.
They don't advertise , Rule one - Don't crash and blend in to the crowd.
Some are **** good pilots not a real hazard
That may work for the US, where over half of general aviation of the entire world takes place. The difference in EU is the overall rural space (there almost isn't any), the regulation and oversight, and most importantly, the overall mindset.

Flying an unregistered aircraft without a license would not last long, and the consequences would be quite dire. How dire would depend on the country, but in any case, much worse than in the USA.
 

wktaylor

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Just remember...

"To err is human, to-forgive is divine... BUT... to-forgive is not FAA** policy."

** and FBI, US Marshall, DEA, Customs, State Police, etc...

and... even though... "It is often easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.” … this usually works only the first time...
 
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