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bwainfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
56
Still wishing Barnaby would do a 4 (or 6) seat version, or at least the PAV 2 seater he postulated. I got to see the original when he flew it to OSH, and have always been very interested in the concept, but cannot justify building a single seat a/c. I could be completely wrong, but it 'feels' like the concept should scale up in capacity with even more improvement in structural efficiency.

Charlie
Still working on the design of the 2-seater. Hope to start building before too long.
 

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Hephaestus

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Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,773
Location
YMM
Still working on the design of the 2-seater. Hope to start building before too long
Development of the PAV project?

I know I'm wierd but - I really like that proposed composite flat panel construction. Still has to be my favorite proposal.

That and cruising around in a carbon fiber wobbling goblin would be sweet :wonder::beer:
 

rotax618

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
919
Location
Evans Head Australia
Please don’t take this as criticism of your design but from my experiments with faceted deltas you will loose a lot of lift by not having a flat windscreen, it is part of the wing in a lifting body aircraft, the other problem I can see is the thickest part of the outer wing is too far back. Forget the tip fins on my models, they only interfered with the vortex at low speed, the model with09903003-8283-41C5-A254-5C55CB4A12EA.jpeg7B5971DA-2662-4286-B4DC-D43343322059.jpeg0795ACBF-C951-4DAD-9B51-E2D1F06D9DFD.jpeg the twin yellow fins had a sharp windscreen and its performance was inferior to the model in front with the single fin and flat windscreen. As Barnaby found with airflow studies a flat windscreen needs a slight curve at the top to assist the airflow.F8F2F76E-AAFB-4AF8-B423-75B6F7D5D5AD.jpeg
 

Mavigogun

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Joined
May 29, 2016
Messages
80
Location
Progressive Texas
Please don’t take this as criticism of your design but from my experiments with faceted deltas you will loose a lot of lift by not having a flat windscreen, it is part of the wing in a lifting body aircraft, the other problem I can see is the thickest part of the outer wing is too far back. *snip* As Barnaby found with airflow studies a flat windscreen needs a slight curve at the top to assist the airflow.
To be clear: the model pictured in my post above is reposted from Barnaby‘s post, #41. It is not my work. I believe the rudder placement- and thickness of the cord aligned to them -maybe detachable wing considerations. The lighting may be playing with perception; viewing the earlier image of what may be the same model on the first page of this thread, the lateral angles of the central canopy panes seem relatively shallow.

I recall Barnaby remarking on critical maximum facet angles demonstrated by paint-or-some-such dribbled on wind tunnel models. I don’t recall rounding of the FMX-4 or 5 canopy tops, nor do they overtly appear so in my photo references. Might you point me to where this was talked about? I wonder if “slight” was quantified.
 
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rotax618

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
919
Location
Evans Head Australia
I was referring to the paint on the wind tunnel models, In hindsight, perhaps my windscreen was more steeply raked. My comments about the loss of lift was inspired by the centre section of the Dyke Delta, which contributes a considerable component of the overall lift.
 

steveair2

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
985
Location
Dallas Texas
Glad to see you making progress Mr. Wainfan. I really enjoyed your forum at Oshkosh a few years back.
I built a Thing 3 you designed a few years ago. I converted it to electric power and added landing gear, canopy and elevons.
Too scared to fly it at the moment. Keep up the great work.

Thing 3.png
 
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Urquiola

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2013
Messages
98
Location
Madrid, Spain
Ref. Urquoila's comments:

All very possible, unfortunately, no one sells an extremely lightweight generator in the power range required. One could build one from brushless motors and an IC engine, but that's another major development project. Those working away in their hangars or garages have to keep the number of development projects to a minimum in order to ever get something finished.

One advantage of double rudders is to be able to use them as speed brakes. It also reduces the size and structure to have double rudders rather than a single one. Many models have been built with singles and they fly just fine. It's really a matter of choice.
Some turbine generators, APU and so on appear every now and then in eBay.com Just need keep on searching. I don't like anything that can become highly asimmetrical in case of failure. Blessings +
 
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