Crashes in the News - Thread

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choppergirl

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I thought we needed a thread for posting interesting crashes in the news...


Last night two F-16's had a midair collision and ejected, pretty much right in my back yard...
I found out about it when my dad stopped by asking me install Google Earth on his phone, and he told me...

South Carolina F-16 jets involved in crash near Louisville | WJBF-TV
South Carolina F-16 Jets involved in crash near Louisville, Georgia | WWLP.com
South Carolina F-16 Jets involved in crash near Louisville

When I practice learning to fly, I plan to fly by flying back and forth between Louisville and Wrens airport... I went to grade school in Louisville... both are large public small town air ports with huge runways and lots of clearance around them that are deader than hell most of the time...

I'm right inside a big MOA and none too happy about it
 
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don january

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Crashes are some thing that some will not care to discuss. some pilot's are lost :cry:and most all bird's destroyed.
 

bmcj

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Crashes are some thing that some will not care to discuss. some pilot's are lost :cry:and most all bird's destroyed.
But that doesn't stop us from talking about them when they come up. I think that is normal human behavior and the discussions can be educational in a safety sense... we just need to give the desired amount of reverence when we talk about it, especially if there was loss of life.
 

Little Scrapper

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When chopper girl actual becomes a pilot and learns to fly in think she'll grasp this concept. I, like many, don't talk too much about crashes. In order to learn you'd need real facts, many reports lack facts and details that matter.

Jeremy from Sonex, as an example. Nobody knows what happened. He was a good man and a joy to talk to. What does talking about his crash do for us?

Chopper girl posts about dive bombing an ultralight in fields on her build thread. Now you want to talk safety? Maybe it's just me but I find that pathetic, dangerous, and sad. Of course, I give her a pass because she is young and has zero flying experience.
 

Wanttaja

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When chopper girl actual becomes a pilot and learns to fly in think she'll grasp this concept. I, like many, don't talk too much about crashes. In order to learn you'd need real facts, many reports lack facts and details that matter.

Jeremy from Sonex, as an example. Nobody knows what happened. He was a good man and a joy to talk to. What does talking about his crash do for us?
If one person learns a lesson from an accident, and at a point in the future survives because of it, then the death has some meaning.

I'll admit that many folks discuss accidents out of morbid curiosity or the desire to gossip, but feel there's often value in discussing accidents anyway.

Ron Wanttaja
 

Lucrum

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But that doesn't stop us from talking about them when they come up. I think that is normal human behavior and the discussions can be educational in a safety sense... we just need to give the desired amount of reverence when we talk about it, especially if there was loss of life.
Agreed
 

Little Scrapper

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If one person learns a lesson from an accident, and at a point in the future survives because of it, then the death has some meaning.

I'll admit that many folks discuss accidents out of morbid curiosity or the desire to gossip, but feel there's often value in discussing accidents anyway.

Ron Wanttaja
Sure, as long as it's fact based. Many are not. I very much enjoy reading about preventing aircraft incidents and have enjoyed your articles. To randomly discuss crashes in the news? Before the facts are in? Well, my guess is this thread won't get real far because it isn't fact based.

Failure to maintain altitude is a hard thing to discuss.
 

Lucrum

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Sure, as long as it's fact based. Many are not. I very much enjoy reading about preventing aircraft incidents and have enjoyed your articles. To randomly discuss crashes in the news? Before the facts are in? Well, my guess is this thread won't get real far because it isn't fact based.

Failure to maintain altitude is a hard thing to discuss.
Aren't most NTSB accident reports factual?
 

narfi

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I would prefer learning from others mistakes both in building and in flying.
Yes respect is necessary, but learning from others mistakes (and successes) is why I started reading (and joined) this forum.
 

Little Scrapper

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Even if a discussion is devoid of facts and purely speculative, it can often contain pearls of wisdom.
This is agree with, 100%. As far as learning "how" to avoid a crash, I have doubts.

I know it's always good to agree with everyone, don't makes waves, etc, but when it comes to safety I leave ego at the door. If people want really good dialog on crashes, which is a seriously great discussion in our hobby, what is it we would learn?

Like many people I've read a lot of reports and articles. I came to the conclusion there's not a single article I've read where I actually learned something I didn't already know. On accident reports I've read often times I walk away thinking "what moron would do this in an airplane?" Like running out of fuel, turning back, low altitude showing off, etc etc. I'm sure you'd agree.

Ok, now let's talk mechanical errors. Sure, there's a little bit of learning but most aircraft engine technology is ancient, it's been hashed over a million times and pilots need to read and study BEFORE flying. And of course there's the mechanical anomalies that nobody can predict. Tough to learn from those.

Weather causes accidents. Where's the learning here that's not common sense?

I suppose there's always the accidents that are a series of multiple poor decisions, those are very specialized and hard to learn from. If the pilot died it's almost always speculation.

I'm not trying to upset anyone, I enjoy hard core stimulating dialog. My points are valid and worth discussion if people are truly interested in safety and not just getting thrills from reading death reports.

Can anyone list the top 5 reasons a homebuilt airplane crashes with a 100% fatality? I would like to see that list.
 

Little Scrapper

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They usually state facts, but for GA aircraft, they seldom provide the details of the series of events that led up to the root cause of the crash.


BJC
Bingo!

So I say this, if learning safety is truly a desire from this thread where do we start?

Posting links to the F16 crash is NOT a safety discussion. So right off the bat the thread is derailed. I know I'm blunt, and direct, but safety is a critical issues. Again, I give CG a pass because she has zero experience. Things become rather "real" when your actually in the air.
 

narfi

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"what moron would do this in an airplane?"
We all do stupid things.
We all do things we know we shouldn't.
We all do them for varying reasons, but two of the top ones are complacency/comfort in what we are familiar with, and spacing out/being distracted by something either external (something we see or feel that catches our attention) or internal (thinking about something else).

I do not believe anyone is immune to these two issues.
However, we can protect ourselves from them with two great tools.

1. Habitual use of checklists/proper methods.
2. Consistently familiarizing ourselves with the consequences.
 

don january

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I think crashes in the "NEW'S" is the down side to this thread. For one it's plastered all over the tube and like many say the total fact's never are disclosed. Heck if CG want's to talk crashes or anyone else I myself can give you 5 or 6 real life event's that has many thing's to learn from, rather it's plane or pilot error. I think the thread would be more suited as "Crashes what we've learned" for instance My dad went down in a spray plane year's ago because of a fuel issue, and many friend's and family wanted to know what happened. I remember the pain in my father's eye's when he tried to explain it to people concerned. He all way's took total responsibility for the crash even though the reason the plane ran out of fuel was in fact because the loader didn't refuel it. So there is the lesson learned for me. When your in control of a craft, Rather spraying crop's or just at a sunday fly in. Never put responsibility of aircraft need's on someone else, even if the person is getting paid to fill the tank's or grease the tail wheel, because if ya go down you have only yourself to blame no matter what the fact's are.
 

Little Scrapper

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We all do stupid things.
We all do things we know we shouldn't.
We all do them for varying reasons, but two of the top ones are complacency/comfort in what we are familiar with, and spacing out/being distracted by something either external (something we see or feel that catches our attention) or internal (thinking about something else).

I do not believe anyone is immune to these two issues.
However, we can protect ourselves from them with two great tools.

1. Habitual use of checklists/proper methods.
2. Consistently familiarizing ourselves with the consequences.
I agree, I think that's fair.

My question of course, with respect, is how does this tread act as a learning tool. Again, posting multiple links to the F16 crash is childish and not a means of learning in any way shape or form. It's like the National Enquirer.
 
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