Crashes in the News - Thread

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Wanttaja

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Can anyone list the top 5 reasons a homebuilt airplane crashes with a 100% fatality? I would like to see that list.
Ooooo, good suggestion:

This the percentage of time at least one fatality occurs (vs. the 100% fatality you asked for) but I'm suspecting it wouldn't change much.

BTW, "Other Mechanical" refers to mechanical failures other than the engine.


Ron Wanttaja
 
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choppergirl

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Actually my intent was simply to report crashes in the news around the world when we see them; not to be a downer or depressant on aviation or even necessarily to learn from accident mistakes; not everybody watches the news everywhere but my guess is, you guys click "New Posts" religiously here like I do. More eyes are better than two.

I use an app called Fast News a lot and once in a while something might be in the news aviation related. Post an airplane crash if you see it in the news. I know if like something like the Glacier Girl crashed I would want to know but I might of missed it being off somewhere else. Maybe it might of been someone you knew or knew about, or a historic old warbird or unusual plane or circumstance. Something more like the eBay thread. Spot it, post it, if it causes some discussion, alrighty then, until the next one posted.

As for me barnstorming fields, well... that's pretty much the only reason I want to fly, dangerous or not. I have nowhere to go; won't have a fast plane; there is nothing I want to see up high; don't want to get hypoxia; and oddly even though I can be something of a hardcore adrenilin junky, I also am a fragile squishy primate and inherently and rightfully so disconcerted by great heights. I was talking with my dad about it today and he said it's different in a plane, compared to say being on top of a TV antenna tower looking down... as in a plane you have no frame of reference like having a tower below you. Of course I've been in planes plenty so I had to ponder it and nod agreement.

What disconcerts me is in an Ultralight, at least mine, you have no nose in front of you, no floor below you, no doors around you, and your only thing resembling a cowl is your tennis shoes. So yes I'm probably going to be a bit disconcerted with only my tennis shoes sticking out in front of me where one might expect an instrument panel and a windshield for an attitude reference to the horizon..

If I can fly 20 to 200 feet off the fields hopping hedge rows to return back to right above skimming above ground effect I'll be happy... I have no problem setting down in a field right below me with no other choice should the engine go out. Break out the cellphone an call for a pickup...

I realize this defies conventional wisdom to gain lots of altitude so you got lots of time to make a plan and find a place to land in a GA plane or ultralight that drops like a rock. But most of where I want to fly I'm already going to be over a place to land in a nice little glider with a not shabby 2.6 lbs/square ft wing loading. When leaving an airport or crossing a huge unbroken forest I plan to gain plenty of altitude to have that margin of safety, until I get to the next field to play in where I can watch the world go by at a blazing 40 mph...

As for not discussing people dying... well... the reality is we are all dying here.. whether we like it or not, flying or not. In only 100 years time all of us here will be dead. And 100 years is not even a drop in the bucket of eternity. So hello all you opinionated dead people! Being an opinionated argumentitive geeky nerd occasional ahole myself, I think I'm in the right place!! :) Birds of a feather, we flock together...

Would you rather die peacefully in your sleep unaware you were dying, or fully awake doing something you loved? Of course nobody wants to die, but then, we don't much get to chose when or how most of the time... and don't see it coming... or believe its coming either... total denial... if you knew you were about to unexpectedly die, you'd change your otherwise routine and harmless appearing plan for the day... before the uncanny series of unfortunate and inexplicable events occured.
 
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VFR-on-top

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Ultralights -- something I'm quite interested in -- crashes aren't throughly investigated, if at all, and media reports get many things wrong, however when I read about one, I try to do a bit of looking into the possible causes, just for my own knowledge which translate into safer flying. Recently in my FB news feed there were two different ultralight fatalities. One was apparently brought down by a failure to complete a loop close to the ground and the other apparently exceeded the g-rating for the vehicle and folded a wing. Although, it was too bad for the (sorry to say this, stupid) pilots, it was a sigh of relief knowing that vehicles themselves had nothing to do with causes of the crashes. And looking at Ron's chart, both incidents fit among the top 4 causes.
 

Little Scrapper

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CG, everyone here is well aware we are all gonna die, i can assure you. Barnstorming fields at low altitude in a 2 stroke ultralight? There's 2 people in town who didn't die from this, they drink food through a straw though, so that's nice. I seem to be the only one here who is shocked by your comments on flying. I guess the world is changing and I'm a bit old fashioned, I'm probably outdated in this world but no thanks. I've been in 2 strokes, and I've had engine issues in a quicksilver MX. I pray to God you don't lose lift at an unusual attitude in that Vollmer. Part of not having any experience is the imagemail you paint in your mind of how the future plays out tends to be optimistic.

Ron, thanks for the chart.
 

MikePousson

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I'm not a fan of dying while flying. This thing of dying "while doing something he loved to do" is nothing but BS. I want to die in bed with my loved ones near me, tomorrow or 20 years from now. Maybe i'm a wuss, but that's my thoughts. Gleaning info from other accidents is a learning tool. So reporting them here as reported by media or NTSB without speculation is good. Flying below stall recovery altitude is not my thing. I don't know numbers, but I think not a lot of deaths happen at safe altitude unless over water or mountains or into a thunderstorm. Very low and slow don't appeal to me.
 

Turd Ferguson

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As for not discussing people dying... well... the reality is we are all dying here.. whether we like it or not, flying or not. In only 100 years time all of us here will be dead.
Would you rather die peacefully in your sleep unaware you were dying, or fully awake doing something you loved?
I'd rather die in my sleep of natural causes, thank you. I certainly don't want to die because of my own stupidity and/or bad decisions / lifestyle choices. Therefore, I'm not going to engage in unwarranted low altitude flying because I think it's cool; I'm not going to smoke cigarettes, shoot up heroin or have a Dr prescribe a cocktail of pills for me to take every day in the interest of a "better quality of life." I'm not going to stuff greasy fries and burgers down my throat at every meal and succumb to self-inflicted heart disease. Poor choices in life increase the odds of an early death and pushing for an early death is not something I love doing. "He died doing what he loved" wow, I don't know of anyone that loves dying, lol. I kind of like the idea of celebrating a 100th birthday. Being glamorized in death by those lamenting "he died doing what he loved" offers me no comfort whatsoever but then I'm not much of a romantic.

if you knew you were about to unexpectedly die, you'd change your otherwise routine and harmless appearing plan for the day... before the uncanny series of unfortunate and inexplicable events occured.
For sure, if a pilot could see that his 30 seconds of adrenaline rush buzz job was going to end his life, he would choose a different outcome. That's why the goal is to to make a good decision to begin with because there is no rewind or do over button to correct a bad choice.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Ooooo, good suggestion:
The midair collision numbers are very interesting. How much of that is due to a homebuilt pilot thinking "I've got a homebuilt so that means I'm an expert on formation flying"

I wonder if the first thought in their mind after the metal crunching sound is "oh boy! I'm about to die doing what I love!" Or something more like "this probably wasn't a good idea"
 

Toobuilder

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Finally, common sense prevails. You guys were scaring me for a second.

The "dying while doing what you love" is so cliché. In the arms of my wife or with family for this cat.
Indeed. I have been in a flying situation where I was certain I was going to die and the fact that I was "doing what I loved" was no silver lining. I'll take it in bed, alseep, thanks.

People who use this reasoning are just trying to make themselves feel better.
 

Lucrum

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....The NTSB doesn't list "pilot error" as a probable cause anymore. Perhaps they have evolved as an investigative agency? ....
Given most crashes are a result of pilot error of some sort, sounds like they've "evolved" to embrace a form of political correctness to me
 

Wanttaja

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When I die, I want it to be like my uncle Fred; suddenly and unexpectedly, in my sleep, not like his golfer buddies who were screaming in terror riding to the golf course with him.
Personally, I want to die at age 95, jumping from a brothel window as the cops bust down the front door.

Actually, like Yossarian in "Catch-22", I intend to live forever or die trying.....

Ron Wanttaja
 

Daleandee

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Finally, common sense prevails. You guys were scaring me for a second.

The "dying while doing what you love" is so cliché. In the arms of my wife or with family for this cat.
I want to go just like my grandpa ... in his sleep ... not like those that were riding in the car with him! :roll:

Dale
N319WF

Edit ... oops didn't see this card already played before posting. Dang it! Foiled again!
 

BBerson

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Flying low is dangerous only if not planned well, as is any activity.
Flying low in a jet is not the same as as a 30 kt ultralight.
Wires are a hazard because they normally are invisible, look for the poles or plan every flight area from the ground first.

Every flight includes low level flight just before landing. Indeed, the airport is a safe place for low level fun. But as usual, the government inhibits safety by prohibiting this activity in the controlled safety of an airport field.
 

Dan Thomas

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I realize this defies conventional wisdom to gain lots of altitude so you got lots of time to make a plan and find a place to land in a GA plane or ultralight that drops like a rock. But most of where I want to fly I'm already going to be over a place to land in a nice little glider with a not shabby 2.6 lbs/square ft wing loading. When leaving an airport or crossing a huge unbroken forest I plan to gain plenty of altitude to have that margin of safety, until I get to the next field to play in where I can watch the world go by at a blazing 40 mph...
"Conventional wisdom" in aviation became conventional because so many died when flying low. 100 feet AGL will kill you just as dead as 10,000 feet, but 100' AGL leaves no options and introduces other hazards like birds and wires and towers and sometimes serious turbulence.
 

BJC

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Indeed, the airport is a safe place for low level fun. But as usual, the government inhibits safety by prohibiting this activity in the controlled safety of an airport field.
Our airpark is frequented by Sandhill Cranes. https://www.google.com/search?q=sandhill+crane&biw=1024&bih=651&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVlOLKnZvNAhVE9x4KHQPuCWUQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=sandhill+crane&chips=q:sandhill+crane,g_1:florida

Two different FAA safety specialists have recommended low passes down the runways before landing to chase the cranes away. I do.


BJC
 

gtae07

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Given most crashes are a result of pilot error of some sort, sounds like they've "evolved" to embrace a form of political correctness to me
I think they still list errors as a cause, but not in those words. They state what they say the error was, e.g. "The pilot's failure to maintain directional control during takeoff in gusty wind conditions, which resulted in a runway excursion and a nose over." Simply saying "pilot error" doesn't actually tell you what the error was.

How much effort is put into investigating small aircraft accidents vs. large ones is another, more controversial matter that I am not qualified to speak to.
 
M

Manticore

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Die quietly in bed? Not if I can help it!

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Dylan Thomas
 
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