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Another airliner missing

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Aesquire

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Initial media coverage can be very wrong. Leaks often not understood.

Most reporters and editors don't know ANY physics or how planes fly. Journalism school does not teach real world subjects and they train to parrot handouts. Breathlessly.

Take everything published until the investigation is nearly completed with a pile of salt.
 

DangerZone

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News reporters claim the French co-pilot Rémi-Emmanuel Plesel was flying when the aircraft stalled. This makes some sense but does not explain the crash, because the captain entered the cockpit to try to save the plane.

AirAsia Flight 8501: Officials Refute Reports Of Pilot Leaving Seat, Cutting Power To Crucial Computers

Wasn't the report supposed to be available by now..?

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/airasia-plane-crash/airasia-flight-8501s-co-pilot-was-flying-jet-crash-official-n295861
 

BBerson

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I saw another video, that showed several seconds of stall mush flight before the left wing dropped.
It looks like the left prop is less blurred.... less rpm?
 

SVSUSteve

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I saw another video, that showed several seconds of stall mush flight before the left wing dropped.
It looks like the left prop is less blurred.... less rpm?
They had reported an engine failure so it looks like a Vmc roll. I literally did a spit take upon seeing that video.
 

Workhorse

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I think it was about to stall and just could clear the buildings, but then tip stalled. Also think is a miracle people could survive such crash.
 

SVSUSteve

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Also think is a miracle people could survive such crash.
Eh....pretty simple physics. Low velocity, relatively speaking, impact into water so you're looking at a longer deceleration than you would have with a ground impact under those circumstances so survivors aren't terribly surprising. The trade off is the issue of how many can evacuate before the cabin completely fills with water...

As a point of contention, I actually am waiting to hear from one of my Taiwanese pathology contacts how many of the victims turn out to have died from drowning as opposed to blunt trauma. I would not be surprised if it's over a quarter of them.
 

DangerZone

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I think it was about to stall and just could clear the buildings, but then tip stalled. Also think is a miracle people could survive such crash.
Looking closer at the map in the first short video one can notice that the pilot was flying at just above the stall speed along the river bank so he could ditch the airplane into safe waters instead of crashing into skyscrapers/buildings. It would not surprise me that the left wing stall was deliberate to save the lives of people on board because it seems like the only possible angle to crash into water at such an unpowered flight path. Had the pilot not stalled the wing, the airplane might have hit the river bank on the other side.

In other words, it seems more like a good pilot than a miracle, a miracle would be landing an ATR without power in a 250m straight water line at 25m wide. Also, crashing wing first contributes to dampening the impact slightly so it is possible the pilot's action was rather deliberate than accidental/miraculous.
 

JamesG

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Doubtful. While he was no doubt trying to put the plane into the river, I don't think he meant to stall the plane and knife edge in. He just ran out of airspeed trying to get over the bridge.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Looking closer at the map in the first short video one can notice that the pilot was flying at just above the stall speed along the river bank so he could ditch the airplane into safe waters instead of crashing into skyscrapers/buildings. It would not surprise me that the left wing stall was deliberate to save the lives of people on board because it seems like the only possible angle to crash into water at such an unpowered flight path. Had the pilot not stalled the wing, the airplane might have hit the river bank on the other side.

In other words, it seems more like a good pilot than a miracle, a miracle would be landing an ATR without power in a 250m straight water line at 25m wide. Also, crashing wing first contributes to dampening the impact slightly so it is possible the pilot's action was rather deliberate than accidental/miraculous.
That's all a nice thought but more likely the pilots had no idea what was underneath them and they were certainly not in control of the airplane as it followed the laws of aerodynamics and physics.
 
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BBerson

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I heard a pilot on the radio say he should have held full right rudder and neutral aileron to avoid tip stall.
He said it appeared the ailerons were not neutral.

I couldn't see the controls enough to say.
 

BBerson

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Easy for him to say... That would have left the rear of the fuselage on the bridge instead of just a wing tip.
No, if he hadn't tip stalled it with aileron and excess back pressure it would have climbed out on one engine. Even if both engines flame like Sullenberger, it still needs to be flown under control.
Pilots often revert to lizard brain and pull back under stress near the ground.
It is hard to resist. I know, it happened to me once.
 
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