ADS-B anyone? And how?

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Rhino

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I keep re-reading the February Kitplanes article on ADS-B. I'd like to incorporate capability for that in my panel to at least some extent, but I'm not sure how to manage that. Has anyone else been looking at ADS-B for a homebuilt?

I'm not looking at having capability now, but rather trying to maximize my compatibility for future options. I can't afford the existing options, and they're overkill for my needs anyway. Since I imagine options and equipment prices will drop a lot after ADS-B is implemented, like Kitplanes reported, all I'd like to do now is insure as much existing capability in my panel as possible so I don't have to replace much later. The problem is, I can't find any compatibility information. As a 'for instance' question, would a Garmin 496 be able to display ADS-B info when it gets implemeted, would that require a 696, or is there no way that any of the existing affordable GPSs will be able to display ADS-B down the road?

The current options out there now seem to be centered pretty much around an encoder/decoder box with a built in GPS that interfaces with your mode S transponder and multifunction display. I'm already planning for mode S but the other stuff is problematic. Most small homebuilts don't have available panel space for a multifunction display, nor do many small certified aircraft for that matter. Based on that I'm assuming future implementations would need the ability to display ADS-B on other screens such as GPSs or EFISs, though I'm not sure how well that would work on an EFIS. And aircraft that already have a GPS shouldn't be required to acquire an encoder/decoder with a GPS built in. Aside from the additional cost issue, it represents space and weight issues too. There just may not be any real viable options out there for us yet but I'd hate to spend big bucks on a panel now only to discover down the road that better choices were available for future ADS-B compatibility.

I'm just curious if any other homebuilders have been thinking about ADS-B and if they've been able to find any information that might be useful for planning future compatibility.
 

vortilon

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Looks pretty fancy and well beyond my level of flying skills. What makes you want such a sophisticated system and obviously outlandishly priced? Isn't such a system for the wheels up, feet up, I'll have the chicken crowd? The people with RVSM?
 

Rhino

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No, it isn't geared toward that crowd, though I have seen some people try to make it sound like that. I'm not sure what you mean by level of flying skills but this is by no means a system mainly applicable to larger and/or more sophisticated aircraft. ADS-B functionality provides benefits to all aircraft. They implemented it in Alaska under the Capstone program to test the system. They funded ADS-B for every aircraft in Alaska and the overwhelming majority of those are small GA aircraft. The accident rate dropped dramatically and the bush pilots loved it. The larger plane crowd might find more uses for ADS-B because of where and how they operate but not because it gives them something extra that smaller aircraft don't get or can't use.

I want it (eventually) mainly for traffic awareness and because it's supposed to give you weather without the subscription fee that XM requires, if the FAA implements it the way most are expecting them to. And most of those supposedly in the know say that equipment prices will plummet once the system comes online. Experience strongly suggests they are correct in that regard. And since we don't require TSO'd equipment we should see even more savings. How much did an EFIS cost five to ten years ago and how much do we homebuilders pay for one today? Same thing for GPSs and 406 Mhz ELTs. Prices drop as such systems are more widely fielded, very often while capability increases as well.

By the way, I have discovered since my original post that my Garmin GPSMAP 696 will be TIS compatible, so it should eventually work with ADS-B. I'm still wondering how I would implement that capability and what additional equipment might be required though.
 

vortilon

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I was making assumptions again and you know where that will get me. lol
My first thought when I looked at it was that would be good for bush pilots or just safety in general. The web site I looked at showed airliners.

Of course the way modern aircraft instrumentation is today it leaves acres of empty space on the panel. Can you post a link that shows one.
 

BBerson

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Not every aircraft in Alaska has ADS-B, only a few. The FAA Capstone project was a test in a small region of southwest Alaska.
I question the 40% reduction in accident claims made from ADS-B. Obviously the FAA is promoting their system because it transfers the cost of operating radar onto the aircraft owners.
 

Rhino

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I was going by what I had read about capstone. I don't care if the FAA fudged and only got a 37% reduction, 33% or even 23%. That's still a major reduction that translates into major lives saved. I'm not playing politics with it and I don't care if it's a 'promotion' on their part. The system works, and it gives situational awareness I'd like to have, plain and simple. Toss in free weather and the deal is even much sweeter.

vortilon, at present point it only requires and encoder/decoder, Mode S transponder and a multifunction display. Since many present GPS displays are TIS compatible, I'm assuming they should work with ADS-B. So if you don't already have a compatible display, then the MFD should be the only extra panel space you'd need.

So I guess aside from those wanting to argue politics, there isn't anyone here seriously considering it? Gee, I wonder if I'll be a trendsetter.
 

BBerson

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The RCA company invented a system they called "teleran" in about 1945. This system would give us almost everything ADS-B does including weather for about $200 per aircraft.
google teleran
 

bmcj

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More awareness is great; reliance on more awareness is not. Human nature being what it is, some pilots will leave the traffic and weather spotting to the ADS-B alone rather than supplement it with the normal visual scans. I've seen this happen when tower control is in place and I don't doubt it will happen with the ADS-B.

Also, I would not favor mandated usage nationwide because I fly a lot of planes that have no electrical system, and YES thank you, I do keep my eyes off the instruments and outside the cockpit.
 

etterre

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Since many present GPS displays are TIS compatible, I'm assuming they should work with ADS-B.
That's a fairly large assumption - I'd be more likely to bet the other way. My experience as a software developer makes me a little cynical about the older version TIS-B playing nicely with the newer ADS-B Yeah, it's a lot of the same info, and it would make sense for it to be in the same data format...

So I guess aside from those wanting to argue politics, there isn't anyone here seriously considering it? Gee, I wonder if I'll be a trendsetter.
I'd love to see something at a reasonable price point that does both halves of ADS-B: in (the traffic, weather, etc) and out (the location and velocity data that your plane sends to ATC (and maybe other planes)), but I'm not aware of anything out there...

It seems like a no-brainer to me if the price isn't absurdly expensive.
 

autoreply

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I'd love to see something at a reasonable price point that does both halves of ADS-B: in (the traffic, weather, etc) and out (the location and velocity data that your plane sends to ATC (and maybe other planes)), but I'm not aware of anything out there...

It seems like a no-brainer to me if the price isn't absurdly expensive.
Flarm does it (except for the weather) and they're under 1000 US$ right now...
 

Rhino

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That's a fairly large assumption - I'd be more likely to bet the other way. My experience as a software developer makes me a little cynical about the older version TIS-B playing nicely with the newer ADS-B Yeah, it's a lot of the same info, and it would make sense for it to be in the same data format....
I only assumed that because they say TIS is supposed to be a part of ADS-B, but you make a very good point. That also kind of ties me back into the Kitplanes article. The author says new builders might want to at least consider ADS-B for their panel design. I agree, but how the heck can we consider it if nobody knows what is compatible or not?
 

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