William Horton

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by bmcj, Oct 15, 2013.

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  1. Oct 15, 2013 #1

    bmcj

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    FlyingWings_AilesVolantes_Nurfluegel_AlaVolante_KN_Pic_Horton_Swoopy.jpg

    The 'low-aspect' thread prompted me to look up William Horton's Swoopy. In doing so, I discovered two opposing views about Horton. I'm not quite sure which to believe... whether one is totally correct and the other blatantly wrong, or both are a partially right and partially wrong.

    It seems that Horton either designed William's miracle plane, or he was Willie the flim-flam man. I'll present both sides and let you decide for yourselves or add more to the details.

    I must say though, that if Howard Hughes really wanted the design and cheated Horton out of the design rights, why did we not see a Hughes-produced low-aspect ration design? After all, Hughes was a mover, so if he wanted it, he would have built it.


    THE HUGHES/SEC SIDE:

    http://www.sec.gov/news/digest/1957/dig103157.pdf

    SEC Horton.jpg


    THE HORTON SIDE:




    YOU DECIDE



     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
  2. Oct 15, 2013 #2

    Topaz

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    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, weighs the same as a duck.... wait... is it if it weighs the same as wood?
     
  3. Oct 15, 2013 #3

    harrisonaero

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    It's a witch?
     
  4. Oct 15, 2013 #4

    Tiger Tim

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    What a strange thing to do to a bamboo bomber.

    -Tim
     
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  5. Oct 16, 2013 #5
    Claims of 100% improvement in anything to do with aviation should ring warning bells (normally accompanied by claims of 500 mph and 100 mpg).
     
  6. Nov 15, 2013 #6

    Johngmay

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    Hello, well to answer your question my Grandfather was a little of both. Genius even though only finished 7th grade, but very greedy. He wanted everything that he thought up to be his own. Howard Hughes was a very powerful man and he destroyed my grandfather. I have the original plans, pictures and film that they did back in the 50's. I used to ask my grandmother about this subjet all the time, and she verified that grandpa did build that plane himself. That he did know Howard. My Mother was actually thinking about writing a book about all this, She has all the info. Thanks1
     
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  7. Nov 16, 2013 #7

    skier

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    I'd be interested to hear more about the plane. What other information do you have on it. Pretty cool to have a relative of William Horton on here.
     
  8. Nov 16, 2013 #8

    bmcj

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    I agree. I too would like to hear more.
     
  9. Nov 16, 2013 #9

    Autodidact

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    The book would be a great thing. Books are one of the great joys of life. And if it's a book about mechanical things then it's sort of a win win deal in that its about people and machines - doubly interesting!
     
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  10. Nov 19, 2013 #10

    jarnicoton

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    An explanation of such a range with such an aspect ratio would be interesting.
     
  11. Dec 3, 2013 #11

    jarnicoton

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  12. Apr 22, 2014 #12

    dchristopher

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    Dear John,

    I knew your Grandfather Bill Horton and I worked on his book for over three years. I also met your Aunt in Morro Bay. Your Grandfather was an amazing man who had
    talent oozing from his fingertips. He had inner demons. All he ever wanted was for you and the other kids to be proud of his efforts. I know because I taped him endlessly.
    He carried a sadness that came from being misunderstood. I also had the occasion to meet with a radio jockey who flew in your Granddad's plane from Corona Del Mar.
    You should be very proud. You had a "Tucker' as your Grandfather. It was my honor to know him. Diana Christopher, Zero Point Films.
     
  13. Apr 22, 2014 #13

    cheapracer

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    Will these films ever become available for us to see them - and thanks for posting Diana.
     
  14. Mar 10, 2015 #14

    AIRHOG

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    I WAS ALSO WAS a ACQUAINTS OF BILL HORTON AND HIS GOOD FRIEND WRONG WAY RUCKTOR. In Las Vegas NV in the 80s in Henderson sky harbor airport.I worked there for Arby Alper owner and Pioneer of aviation.He invented the flying wing (stealth) concept airplane.I talked with him by the hour.The story I got was Northrop wanted the design,and Bill said(not Me) Bill said they tried to steal it so he set it on fire and they put him in prison:depressed for A short time.All he really wanted to do was Build A personnel transportation plane for the public.
     
  15. Mar 10, 2015 #15

    cheapracer

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    I was reading somewhere recently that once the aspect ratio gets to a certain (low) ratio, that the efficiency then starts to improve again rapidly.

    I'll try and find it later.

    By the way, just watched this all again and the claim of it "not flying", which obviously it did, refers to it not flying with the stub wings retracted as per the patent claim, i.e. "Wingless".
     
  16. Mar 10, 2015 #16

    BoKu

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    I was reading somewhere recently about a 200 MPG carburetor that had been suppressed by Big Oil... ;)
     
  17. Mar 10, 2015 #17

    Norman

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    When the aspect ratio is less than 1.5 you get into vortex lift which can increase CLmax by up to 80% but more lift does not equate with higher efficiency. In fact the induced drag is huge and the lift to drag ratio of extremely low AR at normal wing loading is similar to a pizza box with a thick crust pizza, with extra toppings, in it. Now if you also keep the wing loading low enough that the Cl is below 0.2 (the pizza box is empty) the glide isn't so bad but when you pull the nose up it's like putting the pizza back in
     
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  18. Mar 10, 2015 #18

    bmcj

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    Flavio Madariaga (half the namesake of Flabob Airport) had a dual-carbed car with dual tanks that allowed him to switch over to lower grade gas when the hi-grade was not needed. I think he believed that Big Oil was trying to supress his carb.

    Tongue-in-cheek aside, even if Big Oil were inclined to supress a high milage carb, there comes a break even point at which higher milage encourages more driving (and fuel sales) while reducing the incentive to develop alternate fuels.
     
  19. Mar 10, 2015 #19

    BJC

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    Well sure, that's obvious, but what if the crust is in the more optimal range of, say, 12% thickness?


    BJC
     
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  20. Mar 11, 2015 #20

    cheapracer

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    Are you including all the possible shape variations (and further variations on top) of a low aspect ratio wing or a theory based on a simple straight/tapered wing? Note that a high aspect ratio is pretty much limited to straight/tapered style.

    In the MAV competition, it's interesting to note that 20 years ago the winning design used around 5:1 and now they are around 1:1.
     

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