Suzuki G13 weight warning.

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cheapracer

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A few days ago I bought a few engines to play with from the local car scrap yard.

One of them was a 'layover' sumped, Suzuki G13, obviously Chinese version fitted to many mini vans here.

You have seen these same engines offered by a couple of auto conversion companies who are quoting under 80kgs/180lbs for them.

While I am not here to doubt their claims, today I put the G13 on my scales to be stunned by the 99.9 kg reading (no I did not make that figure up for dramatic effect). I couldn't take a picture of the reading as I needed both hands to lift it myself carefully onto the glass scales and balance it on the knife edge of the pan.

Yes my engine has the flywheel on still and an engine mount, but no starter motor, and you need to add a driveplate (auto trans flywheel) and a whole darn redrive.

So I am struggling to believe their weight claims and I warn those people interested in one to make **** sure you see the actual completed, ready to go weight on a set of scales before you hand your money over, rather than what the advert says. Possibly a vertical G13 with tin sump pan and no redrive or starter might get close to 80kgs, but that wouldn't be reasonable advertising in my mind.

Was disappointing as I was considering these as an interim motor for my own project and what a great choice at 80kgs, but there are better choices at sub 100kg level.
 

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cluttonfred

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Well, that certainly flies the face of what multiple engine conversion companies are saying about the exact same engine. Here are pics of converted G10, G13BB and G16 engines each hanging on a scale from Air Trikes: Engines and Conversion Kits..

scaleg10.jpg scaleg13bb.JPG scaleg16.JPG

The G10 has an exhaust, the others don't seem to, and these do not include radiators, but the numbers (about 70, 80 and 90 kg) do seem consistent with the claims of multiple manufacturers.
 
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Himat

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A few days ago I bought a few engines to play with from the local car scrap yard.

One of them was a 'layover' sumped, Suzuki G13, obviously Chinese version fitted to many mini vans here.

You have seen these same engines offered by a couple of auto conversion companies who are quoting under 80kgs/180lbs for them.
These numbers remings me of the old Lada 1500 car. Pretty much a Fiat 124 made under licence in the Soviet Union. The Lada is quoted to be 130kg heavier than the Fiat, made of thicker steel they say. This could be the case here too.
 

Hot Wings

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lift it myself carefully onto the glass scales and balance it on the knife edge of the pan.
Could it be this 'knife edge" part that is messing with the strain gauges in the scale? If there is enough deflection in the glass top it could significantly alter the balance between the strain gauges at each corner.
 

cheapracer

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These numbers remings me of the old Lada 1500 car. Pretty much a Fiat 124 made under licence in the Soviet Union. The Lada is quoted to be 130kg heavier than the Fiat, made of thicker steel they say. This could be the case here too.
Was thinking the same thing myself, could be the Chinese build uses cheaper aluminium with a thicker block, would be interesting to compare to a genuine Japanese Suzuki G13 block.

But of course those engines advertised are the Chinese versions, not that there's anything wrong with that, there's tens of millions of them used in taxis and mini vans here.

I don't mind they are that weight, I think weight is a bit overstated, but can make a difference when you are planning around it like the guy that fitted the Viking to the Searay, it was just too heavy for the application.

Could it be this 'knife edge" part that is messing with the strain gauges in the scale? If there is enough deflection in the glass top it could significantly alter the balance between the strain gauges at each corner.
Anything's possible, I'll do it again tomorrow and spread the load appropriately and have someone else there to get a picture.
 

cheapracer

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Ok, today I got back to this.

I stripped the engine and weighed the bits, this is for the layover version. In red is what I reckon can be done.

Long engine = 62kgs.

Layover cast aluminium sump = 4.5kgs - making the sumpless long 57.5kgs.
add 2.5kgs for a typical tin sump so we'll call a long G13BB 60kgs neat.

Layover intake manifold = 6.5kgs
Handbuilt steel tube intake = 3kgs

Exhaust cast manifold = 6.5kgs
Handbuilt steel tube manifold = 3kgs

Flywheel = 6.5kgs (yup, 3 items the same 6.5kgs)
Auto driveplate = 2 kgs

Alternator = 5kgs (reasonably typical)

Starter = 5kgs (reasonably typical)

Brackets and bolts = 2kgs

Layover G13BB = 93.5kgs (I removed the clutch and unwanted car engine mounts/brackets)
Potential G13BB = 80kgs

So I get a potential weight of 80kgs, G13BB no water or oil or ignition coils.

But they are being advertised at around 82, yet those people will tell you on their websites that their redrives weigh from 7 to 11kgs.

So I arrive at either side of 90kgs. Then there's water, water pipes, oil, radiator, ecu and coils.

I have no motive here, I love G13BB's and I live in G13BB Central, the junk yards have piles of them and I can buy them brand new from a dozen local suppliers for cents in the dollar, I would love for the claimed weights to be true but take a set of scales with you and verify it for yourself so it doesn't bite you later, that's all I'm saying.
 

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aeromomentum

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Some G13bb weights we have measured:
Long block with steel oil pan: 52.4kg
Factory stock "crate" engine: 77.7kg
Our "crate+" engine with lighter parts: 68.2kg
Our SS header: 3.4kg
Our AM13 with gearbox, starter, alternator, etc, dry and no exhaust: 77.3kg
There are some differences in the weights depending on the source, version, etc. We have learned what parts are better and lighter and this is one of the ways we keep our weight down.
For example the starter we use is 2.96kg and the alternator is 2.8kg.

Mark
 

proppastie

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thousands of decisions in designing an aircraft, if cost is a major factor one can not beat the "junk yard engine". Adding all sorts of special parts and drive units probably shoots the cost back up considerably.
 

aeromomentum

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Hi Proppastie,

While a "junk yard engine" can be cheaper to buy, the engines we sell are 100% brand new! We start with a factory new bare block or long block and build the engines with only new parts. But even though we are 100% new and need to add a bunch of custom bits our prices are about the same or lower than those that are using junk yard engines. And of course much much lower than a Rotax, Lycoming or Continental.

Mark
Aeromomentum Aircraft Engines
 

proppastie

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And of course much much lower than a Rotax, Lycoming or Continental.

Aeromomentum Aircraft Engines
I just got a flyer in the mail for a brand new Lycoming TIO-540-AF1B from "Air Power" $101,366 only $1,176.42 a month 10 yr at 6.99%.
 

Denali

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I am not in any way connected with Aeromomentum.

Having said that, I have spoken with several other builders, and they are very impressed with what Aeromomentum has achieved with their engines re weight and performance. I was not able to make it to Sun-N-Fun 2018, but hope to see these engines at OSH 2018 later this year. Below is an image of their 1300cc AM13 engine

From the Website for Aeromomentum: 1.3 Litre AM13 engine

 
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