Sport Aviation Association

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by steveair2, Jun 6, 2012.

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  1. Aug 7, 2012 #21

    billyvray

    billyvray

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    You should. I did the same and got a snail mail letter from Ed. He's probably playing catch-up after Oshkosh.


    ~Bill
     
  2. Aug 7, 2012 #22

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    I’ll happily continue to support AOPA and their legislative efforts to maintain our freedom to fly. Their mission is clear, and the product they offer is consistent with their mission statement. The current mission of the EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT Association is not clear to me, but is obviously no longer focused on my interests - experimental aircraft. Despite the some good things EAA continues to do, the “Experimental” side continues to shrink as the spam cans and corporate sponsors grow. One only has to look at the real estate allocation at Oshkosh over the years to see this. I can foresee a future where homebuilts become the red headed stepchildren of EAA. And no, that's not good enough.


    Yes, I admit that I pine for the “good old days”… Not that I want swarms of 100 MPH rag and tube aircraft clogging the skies again, but I would like to rid airshow center of the new car dealerships, Homebuilt parking from the “luxury” corporate chalets, and the flightline from the ridiculous jet dragster freakshows to make room for homebuilts. Frankly, I’m a lot more interested in innovation from someone’s garage than the latest interior palate on a new King Air. EAA clearly does not share this vision however, and that’s why I am making my point with the only voice I have left – my checkbook. Not that they are likely to miss this single homebuilder – I’m sure they collected 10 more warm bodies at the gate of Airventure this year to replace me. These new "EAA members" might not know the difference between a Glassair and a glass bottom boat, but as long as their check clears, what difference does it make?
     
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  3. Aug 8, 2012 #23

    bmcj

    bmcj

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    George Bogardis was definitely a key player in our ability to homebuild now. As far as old vs modern designs, I think both have their place in the EAA organization, but the big complaint now is that they have moved away from fostering individual innovation and fabrication skills in favor of corporate made kits.
     
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  4. Aug 8, 2012 #24

    Hatzfan

    Hatzfan

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    Hi Guys, I'm pleased to see the interest in the reforming of the SAA. I have recently spoken with Ed about the SAA and he did mention that a website is in the works. Sportaviationassociation, one word lower case, appears to be the domain? Site? I will attach a link as soon as it is available. Steveair2 on post 9 has the best link and vision as of present. In recent phone conversations with Ed I can assure you that he, as well as myself, is a loyal and active EAA members and will remain so. SAA is by no means in competion with EAA but only to supplement as with any type group. Likewise with smaller type clubs, SAA provides a more personal interaction with the membership and as I see it, the vision to be in promoting and supporting affordable flying/building, whether that be new or old designs. Ps. Steveair2? Are you a clipper owner by chance?
     
  5. Aug 8, 2012 #25

    steveair2

    steveair2

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    I only wish I were a Clipper owner. But I did get to fly a 1940 J-5 from Dallas to Oshkosh and back. Great trip!
     
  6. Aug 8, 2012 #26

    Hatzfan

    Hatzfan

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    Oh, thought you may have been Steve Pierce. A J-5 to Oshkosh sounds like a fun trip! I've always like J-5's. We have a Jr Ace that I hope to fly from the Carolinas to Blakesburg then onto Brodhead, got to have a bucket list. Kind of tight but would sure be a fun trip! Also to Austin to see friends but one thing at a time. What's the story behind your Bucker looking ship?
     
  7. Aug 8, 2012 #27

    Marc Bourget

    Marc Bourget

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    I think a better conclusion of the "merits" of the SAA can be reached if you go back to a fundamental consideration of human behavior (Social Group Dynamics) and then consider a valid desire that some may have for an organization, the efforts of which are devoted or focused on their particular interest. Stronger "identity of purpose" focus of efforts, etc.

    Social Group Dynamics "invade" virtually every facet of our lives, but little attention is paid to this behavior phenomena - (outside maybe politicians - who use it to their advantage) since Ben Franklin's reply "A Republic, if you can keep it."


    Onward and upward

    mjb
     
  8. Aug 8, 2012 #28

    Vigilant1

    Vigilant1

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    There may be value in this, I don't know for sure. I would think the "Homebuilder Interest" community already within EAA could serve this purpose, but (psychologically) it might depend on whether members thought of themselves as "EAA" or "Homebuilders first, which just happens to be in EAA".

    If I frequent a restaurant that serves great fish, and a bunch of us (a "grouper?") meet there in the banquet room to enjoy the fish every week, would we stop going just because they started serving steak, too? If they opened a drivethrough window for burgers and milkshakes? I don't think we'd care as long as we could still meet and enjoy the fish in the manner we have been used to.

    I don't know why the presence of warbirds at Oshkosh, in addition to the homebuilts and one-offs, diminishes anything. I think folks imagine that if the warbirds weren't there that the same space at Wittman field would instead be filled homebuilts. I doubt it.
     
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  9. Aug 8, 2012 #29

    Tony

    Tony

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    I was going to ask about a " Mission Statement" But you did hit on some of that.
    IMHO we need a dedicated group. Meaning we do not need A&P's that are GA, they need to be Home Built A&P's. We need trainers or instructors who teach LSA not GA.

    Here is the problem I am finding. A&P's who work on GA birds no very little about the Homebuilt Regulations. We need A&P's who are schooled in Homebuilt. These GA A&P's are doing the Homebuilt Community any good or helping them at all.
    Instuctors who teach LSA not GA. I have talked with a few local instructors and they want me to do training that is not needed for an LSA certificate. Its a waste of my money and time. I have heard so many times from more then one instructor...Go Private not LSA...I believe in this stage of my life with my issue's special to me, I will never go after a private license..I want an LSA certificate. That will soot me perfect to fly around the pattern for one hr a few times a week.

    So if Sport Aviation Association will make all this happen I am on board. If its just another forum for those to share thought, ideas, and building problems, not that that can not be part of it, just not all of it, I say go for it. We need Trainers, inspectors, and A&P"s that are just for Homebuilt and we need a group to push this to make it happen.

    Every city in America has a Hobby Shop to buy RC airplanes. Why is it we have no Homebuilt Hobby Shops. Are we that few? These are the things I lie awake at night and think about....lol

    Tony
     
  10. Aug 8, 2012 #30

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    I think you have hit upon one reason for much dissention in EAA. How would you feel if you went to the resturant one week, and they escorted you to an outdoor patio around back and served your fish there? You say "We'd like to eat in the banquet room," but the resturant owner says, "Sorry, we are expanding our customer base and in order to appeal to the new crowd, we don't want to offend anyone with that fishy smell. To make a good impression, we want them to enjoy their steaks, chicken, oppossum, burgers and milkshakes in the premier dining area, the banquet room. And to make room for the drive through, we had to put you on the patio out by the dumpsters, sorry. We know the fish eaters have been very loyal, they built and supported this resturant for a lot of years in good times and bad but the fish eaters are no longer our 'core' customer, so move out to the patio, accept the fact that things change and STFU."

    I think that's how a lot of homebuilders feel, they are not allowed to enjoy the fly-in in the manner they have been used to.
     
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  11. Aug 9, 2012 #31

    Dana

    Dana

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    And consider this: 30 years ago those hobby shops were filled with balsa wood kits, gas engines, and lots of little parts for the R/C "homebuilder". Now a few of those shops still exist, but most of them are selling mostly prefabricated plastic models with electric motors, to people who have neither the skills nor the interest to build. Sound familiar?

    -Dana

    We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number.
    Please rotate your phone ninety degrees and try again.
     
  12. Aug 9, 2012 #32

    Battson

    Battson

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    I think that is a little too cynical. A few thoughts.... in broad-brush mode.

    If you consider the base population, its growing.
    So the number of people wanting to be involved in any given area of "interest" (hobby, sport, recreation, call it what you like) is also growing, generally.

    But you're right, many of those people do not have the prerequisite skills (thus desire) to make something themselves.
    Some brains just arent wired that way, but in most cases people focus their energy learning other things - there are too many electro/TV/celular/moderised distractions. Not in the same way the population used to be, 30+ years ago when times were simpler.

    Part of that is probably because everyday technology has become too technically complex for most people to ever try and understand / fix things. Or too "disposable". They rely on someone else to know the gorey details. So very generally, a lot of people dont know how things work anymore. And they dont want to.

    But people still have the same natural fascination with flying.
    So, the market meets their needs the way people have come to expect - premade "plastic fantastics" with all the mod. cons. No messy fuels or dangerous stuff.

    So I think, under the growing noise of population and technobabble, the same baseline of true enthusiast are still there. Doing their thing; supported by the same baseline of retailers. It just seems more diluted per capita.

    2c
     
  13. Aug 10, 2012 #33

    Rconc

    Rconc

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    Steve, I agree. I use to devour Sport Aviation from cover to cover, now it's a quick skim, read an article or two and lay it aside. It's not me that changed either because I can pick up an old issue and read the whole thing again. A friend of mine brought me couple of the older SAA magazines "To Fly" and they are a lot like the past Sport Aviation, with tips for homebuilders and the rest, NEAT! The older I get, the more I realize, that I just want to get up in the air for a reasonable cost and get a life recharge and that won't happen with a 120k airplane. I have found myself looking at old articles on the Dormoy Bathtub and can't help but think what a hoot it would be.
     
  14. Aug 11, 2012 #34

    Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson

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    Arrived in the mail yesterday.
     
  15. Aug 11, 2012 #35

    Autodidact

    Autodidact

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    Back in the 1980s, I ran accross a couple of issues of Sport Aviation at an airport lounge. They were printed on high quality paper and you had to turn the cover sideways which is good because that displays the airplane on the cover in the best way. They were valuable artifacts in and of themselves. There wasn't any blurb/headlines on the cover because you knew the contents were worthwhile. And the content was sort of like the Holy Grail - to use a hard worn cliche - page after page of well presented examples of the stuff that got me interested in homebuilts in the first place. I vowed to myself that i would join the EAA as soon as I could afford it, and when I finally did, and the magazine showed up in the mail, it looked just like an issue of Kitplanes. Kitplanes is a fine magazine, but that's not what I was looking for, I wanted the "original" - what a disapointment. A few years ago, I ran accross SAAs website (it's gone, now), and there was a magazine cover on there that looked just like the old EAA covers and had a picture of the replica of Art Chester's Jeep. I want the old EAA magazine. It was special. There is nothing special about an emulation of Kitplanes.

    The magazine is important; it is news and it fuels the dream - it helps build the movement. I see nothing wrong with wanting a quality magazine just for this specific niche in aviation, and there really isn't one. Classic Wings is close, but it's kind of small and down-under-centric as well as warbird-centric. An ideal thing would be if several of the worlds top-notch aviation journalists would get together and publish something like 'The Small Aircraft Journal' along the lines of The Rodders Journal, The Surfers Journal, The Fretboard Journal, etc.
     
  16. Aug 14, 2012 #36

    TaildraggersInc

    TaildraggersInc

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    It looks like the SAA website is live, if in limited form.

    Sport Aviation Association - Home

    I joined at Oshkosh, and look forward to a newsletter/magazine, web content, fly-ins, etc.

    -Wayne
     
  17. Aug 14, 2012 #37

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

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    Because only a handful of them sell only RC airplanes which allows them a large enough market to be sustainable.

    Spread across the US in such a way that...yes, we basically are that few. That's why there are two or three Aircraft Spruce locations and a handful of other specialty shops.
     
  18. Aug 14, 2012 #38

    skeeter_ca

    skeeter_ca

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    Just heard about this for some reason. Wish i would have noticed this while i was at oshkosh. I too liked the old EAA. While B-17's are nice to look at i favor the small homebuilts much better. I just can't seem to get excited about something i will never be able to have, fly or build with my own hands. I just joined on the website. When is the mag coming out?

    skeeter
     
  19. Aug 14, 2012 #39

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

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    I'm now officially a member as well.
     
  20. Aug 15, 2012 #40

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    OK, someone please help me out here. The website says:


    "...It exists to inspire our members to use hand and mind to fulfill the dreams of flight... ...to recapture the passion for building, restoring, and flying affordable aircraft..."


    Does this mean J-3's, ancient 150's and Ercoupes in addition to homebuilts?

    "...We stick close to the retro flavor, and core values, depicted in our publications, that were employed by our original founder..."

    "retro flavor"?...

    Does this mean that fast glass new designs are unwelcome? I'm all for the spirit of the original EAA - not particularily the products of the original EAA members. There was a time when a Tailwind was a cutting edge design - I hope "retro" doesn't mean SAA is going to feature articles on Tailwinds while avoiding advanced stuff like Cory Bird's Symmetry.
     

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