# Roger Mann is building a new, affordable Ragwing ultralight.

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#### Debaker

Hi all. Roger Mann, the guy behind Ragwing aircraft, is at it again. He designed and built a lot of ultralights back in the day, and has been away from it for a while; but now he’s working on a new ultralight that should cost under $5k to build, in the post-Covid economy. It is also supposed to be inexpensive to own, with features like folding wings. So far, it’s looking a lot like a Kimbrel Banty mixed with a minimax. I’m planning on either building a Banty or this new design. For those who are interested, Roger is chronicling the build in the following Facebook group: https://m.facebook.com/groups/1191558664731079/ #### Attachments • 6946D1EE-2B47-4EC2-88B2-F571446756B3.jpeg 114.8 KB · Views: 9 Last edited: #### Tiger Tim ##### Well-Known Member Looks like a clever little thing. I hope it works and that someone here builds one some day. #### Tiger Tim ##### Well-Known Member I like the light stamped metal fuel tank that he plans on using (it’s shown on the FB page). I think it said the tank was for a generator but with its low profile it’s reminiscent of a wing tank that you’d expect to find in a lot of fabric covered vintage high-wings. #### Daleandee ##### Well-Known Member Can't see it cause I don't now, and never will ... Fakebook! It does look charming in the attached photo ... #### Tiger Tim ##### Well-Known Member Not sure how I feel about Gorilla glue being used in primary structure but maybe that’s just the traditionalist in me. I do like how often updates are being posted, though. #### Groundhog Gravy ##### Well-Known Member Not sure how I feel about Gorilla glue being used in primary structure but maybe that’s just the traditionalist in me. I do like how often updates are being posted, though. I've heard a lot of people warn against it, but he has been doing it for a lot of years now. Not the choice I'd make, but he has some data to point to by now. #### Tiger Tim ##### Well-Known Member It may be a case of having the discipline to remove the engine from your UL every couple years and have a giant airplane-shaped bonfire. #### poormansairforce ##### Well-Known Member have a giant airplane-shaped bonfire. We did that to our mini Max after it got flipped and nobody had time to fix it. #### Gregory Perkins ##### Well-Known Member Gorilla glue is a moisture cured polyurethane. That means moisture in the air reacts to form trillions of bubbles in the glue causing it to essentially become a FOAM when cured. Ask yourself how strong air bubbles can be ? The rule about glue is it can be used when the cured component is stronger than what it is attached to. ie. ok to use when gluing foam or fabrics etc. NEVER use on a structural joint ! I dont know how Gorilla glue gets away with their advertising claiming "worlds strongest glue" Even Roger Mann does not use Gorilla glue on the "main" structural joints. #### erkki67 ##### Well-Known Member In France they are building aircrafts for decencies with PUR glues, without any incidents regarding structural weakness. In Belgium the Sader Structan has been certified for experimental aircraft use. #### TFF ##### Well-Known Member Sader Structan seems to be a Bostik company. Hard to find a lateral in the USA. There are marine glues, but they don’t seem structural. There is this two that is being sold by a small airplane supplier COLLE AERO STRUCTAN WATERPROOF 310ML - D4 - AERO 3D Finding the spec on the glues used would be helpful. Any of these seem a lateral? #### samyguy ##### Well-Known Member Roger Mann is Allergic to Epoxy Glues #### trimtab ##### Well-Known Member What makes approaches to ultralight flight like this preferable to a trike approach? #### Hot Wings ##### Grumpy Cynic Supporting Member Using urethane glue is kind of like saying it is built of wood. Lots of variations.$600 book. If you have a **.edu e-mail, or know where to look, it's free.

Edit:
Found a copy of version one of this work: Adhesion Science and Engineering - 1 by A.E V. Posius.
If you want an easy read on crack mechanics as it applies to adhesives - this isn't it.
If you are interested in this subject you may find the time spent well worth the investment.

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#### Fiberglassworker

##### Well-Known Member
Gorilla glue is a moisture cured polyurethane. That means moisture in the air reacts
to form trillions of bubbles in the glue causing it to essentially become a FOAM when cured. Ask yourself how strong air bubbles can be ? The rule about glue is it can be used when the cured component is stronger than what it is attached to. ie. ok to use when gluing foam or fabrics etc. NEVER use on a structural joint ! I dont know how Gorilla glue gets away with their advertising claiming "worlds strongest glue" Even Roger Mann does not use Gorilla glue on the "main" structural joints.
PUR glue only foams when the glue gap is too wide, a .004 joint will have a lap shear strength of 15000lbs, an 0.020 wide joint only has a tensile strength of 400 lbs. The fit-on PUR has to be like resorcinol glue.

#### Dillpickle

##### Well-Known Member
Flying a trike is WORK, lol. But other than the fact that you're pulling a few hundred pounds of pilot and trike carriage around, the ultralight can be more maneuverable with less effort., and at the low end of the cost spectrum, a trike is purchased rather than easily built at a home workshop.
What makes approaches to ultralight flight like this preferable to a trike approach?

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
“Flying a trike is WORK,”.

IMHO. This tells me you are doing it wrong.

Would you like to discuss trike versus airplane flying?

#### trimtab

##### Well-Known Member
I've owned and/or flown both conventional ultralights and trikes. I didn't find effort a significant factor.

The trikes were enough lighter, and with lower wing loading to offer superior STOL and climb gradient performance. Range and cruise speed were better with the more conventional one. Transportability was excellent with both.

The skills for building a trike include technical sewing. The materials costs for conventional designs are a little higher.

So it is a question of what people are looking for....lowest cost? Speed? Short field?