# Raptor Composite Aircraft

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#### Vigilant1

##### Well-Known Member
Will 100hp be enough to maintain altitude?
Not if it keeps gaining weight.
We might need a new term for any resultant off-airport landings. You can't really call it an "accident" or "mishap" if the designer has told you in advance that it is programmed in.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Not if it keeps gaining weight.
We might need a new term for any resultant off-airport landings. You can't really call it an "accident" or "mishap" if the designer has told you in advance that it is programmed in.
No, if it keeps gaining weight, then it becomes a roadable aircraft... without the “air” part.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
'Safety landing' sounds like possible Peter-speak for unscheduled off airport ground contact.
I just poked my calculator; 1/2 power is about right for level flight. Full power should give an incredible climb rate of somewhere around 700fpm.

bmcj, do you mean a 'car'? Hold up, is it legal without the emissions stuff?

#### RSD

##### Well-Known Member
'bmcj, do you mean a 'car'? Hold up, is it legal without the emissions stuff?
Does it have a Volkswagon engine?

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Maybe he should switch to electric. Everybody else is. Investors love it.

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe he should switch to electric. Everybody else is. Investors love it.
Do you really think he will be able to attract more donations now that things are clearly going awry?

#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
Since it is a composite raptor, should we start calling it the 'Craptor'?

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Do you really think he will be able to attract more donations now that things are clearly going awry?
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.

BJC

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I don't understand why he was using a bit of brake for steering on the high speed run? (Latest video)
Is the nosewheel connected to the pedals like a Cessna? Or free castering?

#### Venom

##### Well-Known Member
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.

BJC
My point exactly, Peter is a programmer and salesman, not a builder.
He has chosen to turn this project into a one man show.
It is unlike that support will persist.
This project is not now, nor has it ever been about the Craptor.
It is about Peter, that is why people find this so offensive.

#### Kyle Boatright

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.

BJC
That was the weirdest thing. As a kid (probably 12 years old), I saw Moeller's stuff in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Every few years, I'd see the same story in those rags or in some other outlet. The amazing thing was nobody ever called his bluff on it. That went on forever.

I don't think the Raptor is "front page kinda interesting" enough to bring in investors for nearly that long. Besides, I think it is hard at this point for anyone to look at the project and think success is only another $100k away.. #### Steve C ##### Well-Known Member It must be free castoring otherwise it wouldn't need oil to damp the occilation. I've been told by longEZ pilots that it's best in a cross wind to over steer at the beginning of the takeoff run so you don't have to keep using the brakes while trying to accelerate. Last edited: #### BJC ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter That was the weirdest thing. As a kid (probably 12 years old), I saw Moeller's stuff in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Every few years, I'd see the same story in those rags or in some other outlet. The amazing thing was nobody ever called his bluff on it. That went on forever. I don't think the Raptor is "front page kinda interesting" enough to bring in investors for nearly that long. Besides, I think it is hard at this point for anyone to look at the project and think success is only another$100k away..
Agree with all points.

There is a huge population that is intrigued by technology, but have no fundamental grasp of the physical sciences. They are the “true believers” who discount cautionary comments, or attack critics as luddites. Reference all the blather about electric airplanes, wind energy, cow farts and hurricanes. Raptor has a cadre of true believers. That is dangerous for Peter’s decision making. I’m just about to the point of not wanting to hear or see anything more about the Raptor, because I see it as a tragedy for all involved.

BJC

#### Hot Wings

##### Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
because I see it as a tragedy for all involved.
BJC
And potentially for those that aren't and may some day be looking for financing for a practical aviation project.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
In all fairness, i don’t think you can call the Raptor a scam. Misguided, certainly, but not a scam. Peter is actually building and testing to the best of his abilities, but his strength is in computer programming, not aircraft design.

I think he still believes in the project, but some of the reality might finally be settling in for Peter which ultimately puts him at risk as he tries to save the design by shoveling more coal into the locomotive’s boiler (sorry, wrong engine for that analogy). I wish him well, but to succeed, I think he needs to switch tracks (there’s that analogy again). Sure, he took on investors, but he seems to have used that money (and his) for its intended purpose instead of lining his pockets.

I wonder if Moller started off believing in his project before it eventually became only just a 50 year investor-funded payday?

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#### pictsidhe

##### Well-Known Member
And potentially for those that aren't and may some day be looking for financing for a practical aviation project.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
In all fairness, i don’t think you can call the Raptor a scam. Misguided, certainly, but not a scam. Peter is actually building and testing to the best of his abilities, but his strength is in computer programming, not aircraft design.
Look at the claimed performance, complete with comparing it to a proven airplane currently in production. Read the list of features. Look at the claimed price. Is there really a difference between willful ignorance and a scam when promoting a new, revolutionary, product? It takes more that good intentions to be legit when accepting other people’s money.

BJC

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
The gear either needs more trail, negative rake, or more forward rake. Depends on how he wants to go. Airliners I worked on were in trail. Even with hydraulic steering if an airliner lost the steering, you can always turn with brakes and thrust. You don’t want it shimmying if you loose the hydraulics. Most smaller planes with connected steering tend to rake forward like a chopper. Easier to leverage the turn manually. Cessnas have the shimmy dampener because they need a little more rake. Trailing is like a tail wheel airplane when it’s got the wrong angle, shake city. Passive requires good geometry; if you can’t have that you need dampeners.

As for him getting attention while a perfect design gets no attention, there is a saying in racing, “Money talks; talent walks.” It has been around since the first trade our spices made; probably trading a shiny rock for a piece of blubber. The best racers usually don’t get the best equipment unless they can market themselves. Just being good does nothing if you can’t get on the track. Any endeavor is like that. While good designs are important, no one knows unless you can market it.

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