Raptor Composite Aircraft

HomeBuiltAirplanes.com

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes.com:

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
4,755
Location
US
Will 100hp be enough to maintain altitude?
Not if it keeps gaining weight.
We might need a new term for any resultant off-airport landings. You can't really call it an "accident" or "mishap" if the designer has told you in advance that it is programmed in.
 

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,313
Location
Fresno, California
Not if it keeps gaining weight.
We might need a new term for any resultant off-airport landings. You can't really call it an "accident" or "mishap" if the designer has told you in advance that it is programmed in.
No, if it keeps gaining weight, then it becomes a roadable aircraft... without the “air” part.
 

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
7,378
Location
North Carolina
'Safety landing' sounds like possible Peter-speak for unscheduled off airport ground contact.
I just poked my calculator; 1/2 power is about right for level flight. Full power should give an incredible climb rate of somewhere around 700fpm.

bmcj, do you mean a 'car'? Hold up, is it legal without the emissions stuff?
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
10,893
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
Do you really think he will be able to attract more donations now that things are clearly going awry?
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.


BJC
 

BBerson

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
12,995
Location
Port Townsend WA
I don't understand why he was using a bit of brake for steering on the high speed run? (Latest video)
Is the nosewheel connected to the pedals like a Cessna? Or free castering?
 

Venom

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2016
Messages
58
Location
Pacific NW
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.


BJC
My point exactly, Peter is a programmer and salesman, not a builder.
He has chosen to turn this project into a one man show.
It is unlike that support will persist.
This project is not now, nor has it ever been about the Craptor.
It is about Peter, that is why people find this so offensive.
 

Kyle Boatright

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
900
Location
Marietta, GA
Moller successfully ran his scam for almost 50 years, and his aircars didn’t go wry; they went nowhere, except under a crane once.


BJC
That was the weirdest thing. As a kid (probably 12 years old), I saw Moeller's stuff in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Every few years, I'd see the same story in those rags or in some other outlet. The amazing thing was nobody ever called his bluff on it. That went on forever.

I don't think the Raptor is "front page kinda interesting" enough to bring in investors for nearly that long. Besides, I think it is hard at this point for anyone to look at the project and think success is only another $100k away..
 

Steve C

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
69
Location
Lodi, CA
It must be free castoring otherwise it wouldn't need oil to damp the occilation.

I've been told by longEZ pilots that it's best in a cross wind to over steer at the beginning of the takeoff run so you don't have to keep using the brakes while trying to accelerate.
 
Last edited:

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
10,893
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
That was the weirdest thing. As a kid (probably 12 years old), I saw Moeller's stuff in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Every few years, I'd see the same story in those rags or in some other outlet. The amazing thing was nobody ever called his bluff on it. That went on forever.

I don't think the Raptor is "front page kinda interesting" enough to bring in investors for nearly that long. Besides, I think it is hard at this point for anyone to look at the project and think success is only another $100k away..
Agree with all points.

There is a huge population that is intrigued by technology, but have no fundamental grasp of the physical sciences. They are the “true believers” who discount cautionary comments, or attack critics as luddites. Reference all the blather about electric airplanes, wind energy, cow farts and hurricanes. Raptor has a cadre of true believers. That is dangerous for Peter’s decision making. I’m just about to the point of not wanting to hear or see anything more about the Raptor, because I see it as a tragedy for all involved.


BJC
 

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,313
Location
Fresno, California
In all fairness, i don’t think you can call the Raptor a scam. Misguided, certainly, but not a scam. Peter is actually building and testing to the best of his abilities, but his strength is in computer programming, not aircraft design.

I think he still believes in the project, but some of the reality might finally be settling in for Peter which ultimately puts him at risk as he tries to save the design by shoveling more coal into the locomotive’s boiler (sorry, wrong engine for that analogy). I wish him well, but to succeed, I think he needs to switch tracks (there’s that analogy again). Sure, he took on investors, but he seems to have used that money (and his) for its intended purpose instead of lining his pockets.

I wonder if Moller started off believing in his project before it eventually became only just a 50 year investor-funded payday?
 
Last edited:

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
7,378
Location
North Carolina
And potentially for those that aren't and may some day be looking for financing for a practical aviation project.
That is what irks me most. There are far better engineers out there who just can't bullpoop like Peter can. They have less likelihood of getting funding for a viable project whenever some Moller/Muller scams the clueless. Those 134 people paid $20k deposits on aircraft that will never be built. That's a quite a few upset people.

I'm not even sure that the Craptor is merely a child of Dunning-Kruger. Is Peter really so overconfident in himself that he thinks he can master numerous technical topics with a bit of googling of which he had very little or no prior knowledge? Whilst pooh-poohing advice from experts who have been in their fields for decades? This has all the hallmarks of a scam. He can supposedly program. That suggests an above average IQ, which usually decreases the likelihood of such a spectacular series of design failures.

Is it possible to publicly access company reports? It would be interesting to see what the CEO of Raptor LLC has been earning.
 

BBerson

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
12,995
Location
Port Townsend WA
It must be free castoring otherwise it wouldn't need oil to damp the occilation.

I've been told by longEZ pilots that it's best in a cross wind to over steer at the beginning of the takeoff run so you don't have to keep using the brakes while trying to accelerate.
I don't think it is free castering like a longeze https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutan_Long-EZ#/media/File:Rutan.long-EZ.g-wily.arp.jpg. Free castering needs severe trail.

I think his rudder pedal to nose wheel springs are too loose so he needed brake. Tighten em up and shimmy might stop.
 

Kyle Boatright

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
900
Location
Marietta, GA
Peter has put his heart and soul into this. He has the marketing skills to bring in the funding, but not the engineering skills to deliver on the promises. I just think he's in over his head and sees the only "out" as to continue pushing forward.

The good thing is he's only gone through $2-3 million and a couple of years. There are others -Moller, Terrafugia who have done much worse.
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
10,893
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
In all fairness, i don’t think you can call the Raptor a scam. Misguided, certainly, but not a scam. Peter is actually building and testing to the best of his abilities, but his strength is in computer programming, not aircraft design.
Look at the claimed performance, complete with comparing it to a proven airplane currently in production. Read the list of features. Look at the claimed price. Is there really a difference between willful ignorance and a scam when promoting a new, revolutionary, product? It takes more that good intentions to be legit when accepting other people’s money.


BJC
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
12,618
Location
Memphis, TN
The gear either needs more trail, negative rake, or more forward rake. Depends on how he wants to go. Airliners I worked on were in trail. Even with hydraulic steering if an airliner lost the steering, you can always turn with brakes and thrust. You don’t want it shimmying if you loose the hydraulics. Most smaller planes with connected steering tend to rake forward like a chopper. Easier to leverage the turn manually. Cessnas have the shimmy dampener because they need a little more rake. Trailing is like a tail wheel airplane when it’s got the wrong angle, shake city. Passive requires good geometry; if you can’t have that you need dampeners.

As for him getting attention while a perfect design gets no attention, there is a saying in racing, “Money talks; talent walks.” It has been around since the first trade our spices made; probably trading a shiny rock for a piece of blubber. The best racers usually don’t get the best equipment unless they can market themselves. Just being good does nothing if you can’t get on the track. Any endeavor is like that. While good designs are important, no one knows unless you can market it.
 
2
Top