Raptor Composite Aircraft

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Rik-

Well-Known Member

IF Given the plane was local to you, next to your hanger or home.. what would you do to test/configure this plane (provided the owner says go for it)

I see some say they’d measured the torque and the HP. Other than fuel BURN how would you do that exactly?

Some say weigh it then some say remarks about the nose weight????

When you make a suggestion, exactly how would you go about it? I’m asking as I don’t have the slightest idea on how most comments would achieve their statement if they were presented with the opportunity.

Fuel burn and hp are related although not exact.

BBerson

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
The gear either needs more trail, negative rake, or more forward rake
Yeah, I think he didn't have enough forward rake at first try. His fork should be straight like a Cessna, not bent back.

flyboy2160

Well-Known Member
No, everything is fine. An adoring fan said: "A small hop for Peter; A giant take off for all aviation."

Scheny

Well-Known Member
My DA42 NG likes to be landed at 80-90kt and she has a nosegear with rake, but without trail, while the 60kt DA40 has no rake but trail (unsteered fixed gear). Do I understand right, that you either need a rake without trail, trail without rake or rake with a lot of trail? Is there any formula for this?

As for the Moller skycar, I do not concur that this was a scam. It had an ingenious concept with redundancy and good working impeller system. The problem was that due to redundancy you needed 800hp for a four seater, so that the economy could only be met at ludicrous cruise speed. At hover, the figures were far from good (but come on, for intense hovering, just buy a helicopter instead).

Moller only had the problem that he was ahead of his time. I did my master degree (2004?) with development of inertial navigation platforms. This was exactly when the new (nowadays in every smartphone) sensors came out, but still were at around 500$each! Before that, sensing of rotational motion was done using miniaturized tuning forks, which were highly susceptible to temperature and vibration. It was almost impossible to get a usable signal from them. Also computational power changed. Nowadays every 20$ drone has ten times more computational power than the best military embedded processor back then...

In my opinion, Moller was the one who drove the invention of the modern quadro-/octocopter as we experience them right now.

philg

Member
I don't understand why he was using a bit of brake for steering on the high speed run? (Latest video)
Is the nosewheel connected to the pedals like a Cessna? Or free castering?

Scheny

Well-Known Member
Oh, I was not aware of that and I was also not aware he invested over a 100 million. I thought it was one million in total.

After reading the specification again I have to admit that 6 hours endurance and 36k feet max altitude with normally aspirated engines are bullshit...

Still, this is the first working octacopter. It would be interesting why they never flew it.

TFF

Well-Known Member
No one would insure it in the end for a loss. Too far upside down in value and too weird. It had flown tethered supposedly multiple times, but without a customer to flip the bill, it was not going to be free. Modern electronics would have been a whole different ballgame.

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
In my opinion, Moller was the one who drove the invention of the modern quadro-/octocopter as we experience them right now.
Not quite. There were numerous others that predated Moller’s design (and predated Moller too). Below are two examples that were developed and flown under U.S. military requests:

1956 Convertawings model A

1922 De Bothezat helicopter

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure the modern multirotor started with an avro project...

Not the avrocar what was the other one the pilot stood upright on top of?

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Pretty sure the modern multirotor started with an avro project...

Not the avrocar what was the other one the pilot stood upright on top of?
Your not talking about the Hiller flying platform from the 50’s, are you?

Hephaestus

Well-Known Member
Your not talking about the Hiller flying platform from the 50’s, are you?
Pretty sure it was avro, the Hiller was much smaller. I thought it was the avrocar but clearly that's not right.

Marc Zeitlin

Exalted Grand Poobah
What in Cthulhu's name does any of this have to do with Raptor?

narfi

Well-Known Member
What in Cthulhu's name does any of this have to do with Raptor?
Are we allowed to have religious discussions here?!?!??!

Scheny

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression this is the bible thread about Armageddon, where the lame angel rises up and god let it rain fire and ashes...

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Pretty sure it was avro, the Hiller was much smaller. I thought it was the avrocar but clearly that's not right.
I think you might be thinking of the Avrocar VZ-9 in which the pilot sat inside, which may be the reason you discounted it earlier. It was built in the late 50’s, but was never able to move out of ground effect safely. However, Moller’s prototype ten years later did look a lot like the Avrocar, both of which could easily be described as (non)flying saucers.

This is all pretty far off track for this thread. If you want to continue to discuss it, we should take it up in a new thread.

FarmBoy

Well-Known Member
Well, it's YouTube Tuesday so I'm sure there will be more fodder for potentially more Raptor related commentary later today.

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Are we allowed to have religious discussions here?!?!??!
It is Raptor related.

To paraphrase "There are no atheist in the cockpit of a Raptor whose nose wheel has left the earth"

pictsidhe

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression this is the bible thread about Armageddon, where the lame angel rises up and god let it rain fire and ashes...
This thread is about the coming Raptore. When the Raptore comes, the faithful will rise up to heaven while everyone else goes to hell. To be considered a true believer, you must pray to god twice a week. A token \$20k given to the church will guarantee your place in heaven.

Uh-oh, here comes Satan, err, 'Topaz'.

flyboy2160

Well-Known Member
What in Cthulhu's name does any of this have to do with Raptor?
I just couldn't resist: In sympathy with the nose wheel shimmy, it's.........thread shimmy.

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